Should I avoid head hunters? 8

[EEfromOU]

Long time lurker first time thread starter so please excuse any transgressions that might follow....

I have been with my current employer for over 6 years and see the signs it is time to move on do to management changes that I do not see as being any good for my department in the future. There are plenty of opportunities to apply to in my area along with other states that could work out well.

My question is before I start throwing my resume out there and sabotage enlisting the help of some recruiters should I consider using one to search for opportunities per my requirements and needs? I ask this because it is my understanding that if I have already applied at a company the recruiter can't or will not approach said company typically.

Also any of your experiences with recruiters is greatly appreciated. No references needed either.

 

[looslib]

I have used recruiters to get a job in the past and have been gotten a job that a recruiter contacted me about. Some are good and will work with you, explain the company situation and even negotiate salary. They are paid by the hiring company either way. It is a lot like real estate sales, you talk to many and show some, but only sell one.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[Terratek]

A common mistake a lot of people make is trying to "find a job" rather than just try to get an interview. There are lots of jobs out there and the quality of the job can most often not be accurately assessed until working it. My motto is to cast a wide net. Apply for everything (obviously within reason) and then get picky between the offers actually presented to you. The key is to get as many interviews as possible. Interviewing for jobs you assume you don't want may reveal a job you actually like. If not, the interview practice is invaluable since interviewing is not something you do on a regular basis. Using a recruiter, or two or three will, at a minimum, help you find more interviews.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

My take on it is nearly the opposite, Terra. My time is precious, and wasting it on lengthy interviews that will likely not result in useful options is a poor use.

Other fields may be different, so YMMV...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[JedClampett]

This thread has been hagning around for a while and I've meant to reply, but never felt my contribution was worthwhile. But what the heck....
One opinion that went around our company was that if you hire someone using a headhunter, in a few years, you're likely to lose them. You're in the headhunter's Rolodex (or whatever they use now) and you've shown an affinity to leave for the right motivation ($$$). They have a dead period, usually about three years, where they can't contact you (I guess they might lose their fee), but after that you're fair game.
That is exactly what happened to us. But the guy was good, we got three years out of him, so I guess everyone got something in the deal.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

If you're paying someone what they're worth and treating them properly, what's their incentive to leave? Think on that for a while...

I get plenty of offers, but the money difference is often nothing to jump ship for, particularly when I'm being treated fairly and enjoy my work. You don't jump ship for a 3% salary increase, and if you're able to command a 10%+ increase, your current job is likely doing it wrong (I'd estimate half of my moves were for large increases in pay). Maybe you hired the person at slightly below market, but after a few years experience, you can't blame them for finding greener pastures at some place that is offering a bit above market (that 10% increase).

The point is, it's not the headhunter's fault.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[1gibson]

Random addition here.

At my previous employer, they actually had a headhunter call me on employer's behalf (unknown to me at the time.) I told them what I told all the others; not actively looking, but this is what I'd like to be making so let me know if anything comes up in that range.

Next review I am given a "retention raise" that is x% now, x% in 6 months, not close to the magic number but hey, that's still a nice surprise. 8 months rolls around, haven't received the second part of it.

Get an unsolicited interview (through a friend, not a headhunter) so I check it out. Goes well, tell them the magic number, get an offer for that amount. Took it on the spot, what else do you do when you get what you ask for?

Turn in 2 weeks notice. "Oh we had no idea, what can we do, what will it take to keep you, here's a counter offer (for magic number that I still never disclosed to employer directly.)

Too late now, I'm realizing that you knew what it would take to keep me and didn't make it happen. Manager had dropped some hints about the headhunter cold call that finally all added up. It's an interesting strategy, easier and has more immediate value than market research. That changed the situation from honest misunderstanding to consciously low-balling and hoping for inertia to keep me around. Win some, lose some. If I'm not worth it in an honest (from my end anyway) negotiation, then I'm not going to participate in the whole counter-offer blackmail thing.

There are two sides to every story, and no I don't think I should get a big raise every year "just because." But nearly 8 years there and I am still trying to catch up to the market, if it hasn't happened yet then it's not going to.

Cliff notes: if you get a cold call from a headhunter, it could be your current employer knowing that you're way underpaid, and trying to figure out how little an increase it would take for you to feel just moderately underpaid.

 

[MedicineEng]

I have headhunters contacting me through Linkedin every other month (it´s really a hot market for my skills in my area), asking to connect with me and saying that there are opportunities for me out there and all that sweet talk.

Right now in my area is really a hot market, so I figure that I don´t need a headhunter to do my job and look for my best interest.

Some time ago I was with a colleague and friend and he mentioned to me that there was a headhunter that wanted to connect with him through Linkedin and that he had a couple of opportunities that he wanted to speak with him about. Since my colleague was looking to change jobs, he accepted the Linkedin connection. A couple of days after I recevied in my Linkedin the connection request from teh same guy with the exact same story. I didn´t connect with him.

I changed jobs some months ago and sure enough this guys name popped out again in two other not so flattering situations:

1-He had had a meeting with my boss saying that he had a lot of good engineers and managers in his portfolio and he could help us reinforce our team. Soon enough he was sending CVs that were basically Linkedin CVs (some were even guys that I knew) but with his letterhead paper and shooting for the sweet commission.
2-In other occasion I was having a lunch with a potential guy that we were considering to hire and he asked us to maitnain our meeting under wraps because a few weeks back he had been contacted by this "headhunter" and set up a meeting with a potential employer. He filled the employer´s questionnaire where he stated that he didn´t want his current employer to be contacted. Next day he receives a call from this potential employer saying that they had a non-poaching agreement with his current employer and that they would have to contact his current employer to inform them that he had applied for a job.

Bottom line is, unless I can´t avoid it, I will not use headhunters.

 

[GregLocock]

" if you hire someone using a headhunter, in a few years, you're likely to lose them. "

...if you overbid to get them on board and then don't reward them once they are there (presumably because they are ahead of the curve and an easy target during the pay rise bunfight meetings).

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[IRstuff]

"Cliff notes: if you get a cold call from a headhunter, it could be your current employer knowing that you're way underpaid, and trying to figure out how little an increase it would take for you to feel just moderately underpaid."

Dang, I must be overpaid

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

 

[DHambley]

Getting back to the OP question, the main reason to have a recruiter's help is that some companies only find professionals through recruiters, not the companies own HR department. I have found about half of my clients via cold calls or word of mouth, and about half via recruiters.
EEfromOU, I would recommend using both methods. If a company prefers to only use recruiters you might not get an interview by sending the company a resume. If a department head has a preference to find engineers via LinkedIn or word-of-mouth then, you have to be your own recruiter by finding if that company is looking and contacting them directly.

Sometimes a companies own culture prevents them from finding a specialist because of a disconnect between HR and engineering. A few years ago there was an adv for a job which looked very interesting and was well within my skill set. I wanted to call the hiring manger directly but I could not find an actual name, phone number in the adv or their website, nor through a long google search. So instead of my usual cold call I sent them my resume, then I got an email which basically said,
"Our computer thanks your computer for sending a resume".
About a year later at a conference, I actually met the director of engineering. He told me, "Boy I'd really like you to come work with us. We're having trouble finding engineers." They decided to start finding engineers thru recruiters. I was already at my current job which I'm very happy with so I couldn't help him. My point is again, I recommend you use both methods.

Darrell Hambley P.E.
SENTEK Engineering, LLC

 

[rotw]

Some of my experience with recruiters..

In general it is often a waste of time except few who are really good, my advice is:

- Look for a recruiter with strong character; someone who stand up for his opinion, as most likely this guy will have the gut to make a decision and take a risk when all the rest will not have courage to say yes if it is a yes or no if it is a no. Also his word will be respected by the HR and company staff. If he pushes for you than you can be sure this will produce an effect.

Strong character does not mean he is shouting or looks strict.
It means someone who has his vision and values no matter what they are. Recruiter who have fear (fear to loose their position or reputation or whatsoever) will drop you when it gets just a little bit tough, this you cannot rely on.

Look for the background of the recruiter, this can say a lot on his values.

- Look if the recruiter will come an pick you up at the train station to take you to an interview, or will care if you find the way to the company; these are small things that give an insight on the recruiter;

The bad news is that these people are rare.

this is just my experience.

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

 

[EEfromOU]

Thank you everyone for sharing you experieces and perspetives on recruiters.

I am still with my original company mainly looking for opportunities and researching companies before I start actively applying and possibly engaging in conversations with recruiters.

I do not expect any recruiter will provide a better opportunity than I can find on my own but I will give them a chance when I decide it is time to move on without question.

Again thanks for sharing.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I do not expect any recruiter will provide a better opportunity than I can find on my own

Recruiters often have the inside scoop on positions... positions companies don't post on job sites (and quite often even on their own webpages). I would say recruiters have provided me with a solid 25%+ of my leads that I would not have found elsewhere on my own.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[truckandbus]

I have found that recruiters are good for 'fall from the sky jobs' that probably are not on the job boards but typically are halfway across the country or halfway across the world. If you are looking to stay local I think your own research and networking will yield better results

 

[MacGyverS2000]

That will obviously depend upon the industry... in mine, the numbers I gave above hold true for local positions. But there are also a high number of positions in a dense cluster around me, so YMMV.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[ct27gt]

My experience with a recruiter was worthless. That's not to say there aren't decent ones out there. I am just relaying my experience with Aerotek.

I had an in person interview, told them I wanted to stay local, and had 2 specific companies where I wanted to work. She claimed she had dealt with both of those companies in the past. I also told her what I thought I was worth and she told me that was reasonable, but maybe a little high.

I find out about an opportunity regarding one of the companies I was interested in on Craigslist. I contacted the headhunter and asked why I wasn't informed and if she would recommend me for the position. Bottom line is I never heard back and ended up getting the position on my own. Not only that, but I ended up negotiating an even higher salary than the lower amount that she thought was "a little high".

I'd say to give them your information and do the interview and hope something comes of it, mainly because you have nothing to lose. But in the end, I wouldn't expect anything.

 

[GHartmann]

Don't forget the recruiter is really trying to find a person for a specific job, not a specific job for a person.

My suggestion is to use them when you have to, find one or two who are good and specialize in your field, network with your associates and contacts, and apply direct when you can.

If you can find the actual "hiring manager" all the better and you can bypass the HR screening and/or lack of engineering knowledge.

Above all, have patience. The "black hole" of internet applications can be very frustrating.

 

[urgross]

If you're not into 1970's funk/jazz, then yes, avoid Herbie Hancock and the Head Hunters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_Hunters

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Aerotek...pffft. I avoid them like the plague and ignore all calls/emails from their "representatives". I worked with them once... never again.

They do their best to convince you your reasonable salary request is a bit too high, despite your own research. They want to get you into that job so they can make their money, and it's easier to do that if they can knock 10-20% off of your desired salary. If I was just starting off and desperate, I'd still think twice about using them, and even then it would be for a short period of time. The benefits suck, too.

They are exactly why recruiters have the reputation they do...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[cdxx139]

I avoided them like the plague. But i gave one a shot last time,and it worked out great. They helped with negotiation. I made the most when I used a head hunter.

knowledge is power