Should I just give up? 15

[TheMechanicaGenius]

I have had zero luck getting a job actually doing engineering. I had a technology degree and got stuck in a job doing nothing but drafting for five years. I got disgusted and quit. Returned to school to a BSME. Graduated from Penn state with a 3.1 GPA 3.3 in major GPA. Tried to get a job at medium to large sized company and either never got an interview or had an interview and got rejected. I'm now stuck at another job doing drafting. Day in, day out. Just cad and other menial tasks that I could have done in 5th grade. I'll be 33 this month. I am wondering if I should just give up and try another career. I was wondering if anyone has ever been in a situation like this. Will I get to the point where I'll get to do something else or is this experience a dead end? Some people have said if you're in my position at 30 you're stuck in a cubicle doing cad you should just get out of engineering, others say you won't get to do actual engineering until you have many years experience. I really feel like I could do great things but noone will give me a chance. Just feel lost and have no direction or career path. Any advice would be helpful.

 

[McDermott1711]

Barry Schwartz describes your situation in this talk:
Link

But didn't show the alternative...

 

[TheMechanicaGenius]

Thanks everyone for RSVPing to my pity party!
Some additional info:
I meant to have my screen name say the mechancalgenius, but I spelled it wrong. I've always been able to fix anything mechanical.

I do work at a tiny company. I wanted get into a mid sized company with a support staff so I didn't have to do all the grunt work.

I have my EIT certificate and should be able to sit for the PE if any of my experience doing grunt work counts.

I can't move my wife has a really good job.

I guess my two main gripes are that others have WAY more success than me getting good careers with less experience and lower grades, probably cause they know someone, and it seems like you can't get a job unless you do the same thing somewhere else. Just not sure how to break through...I mean I could go somewhere else and do cad and BOMs and other BS but I'll still hate it.

Thought about taking a year off.

Just feel like my career will never get off the ground..

 

[Latexman]

"mechancalgenius" is also misspelled. Anyway, your handle is easy to fix. Just left click "Red Flag this post" on any of your posts and ask them to correct your handle. Just be sure you get it right THAT time.

Good luck,
Latexman

To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[IRstuff]

"others have WAY more success than me getting good careers with less experience and lower grades, probably cause they know someone,"

Unless you are antisocial, there's no reasons you can't "know someone." Others have given suggestions about where to hang up to get some exposure to other engineers, which is a first step.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
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[zeusfaber]

"Should I just give up?" An interesting one, which begs a few other questions.

They reckon decision making is always easier if you can turn it into a pairwise comparison between valid options, so my first question is "Give up and do what instead?"

Do you have an alternative talent you sidelined in favour of engineering that you could rekindle and turn into a fulfilling career?

Do you see a path to fulfillment based on doing stuff that improves people's lives, but not through the medium of formalised engineering? If your wife has a good job, did you have something unpaid in mind?

Do you see a path to wealth and influence through, for instance, general management?

Were you thinking more in terms of giving it up in favour of no future at all?

If you were tending towards the last of those ideas, tell somebody today: Your wife; your boss; your mate down the pub; your doctor - just somebody who has time to listen to you.

For all the other options (and the better ones you think up yourself), the mental act of sculpting them into valid options (rather than straw men) that are well enough developed for you to compare them may be helpful.

"others have WAY more success than me getting good careers with less experience and lower grades"

Another old engineering adage: "If you're in a hole, it never hurts to measure the depth".

Which others have way more success?

Why are you comparing yourself to them? Is it because you were all part of the same group? Who else was in that group? Where are they all now - including the ones you don't see bragging about how well they're doing?

What's the measure of a good career? Have they landed the very jobs that you were desperate to get? Are the jobs they are doing now the sort of job you'd enjoy doing all day every day? Are the jobs they are doing now the sort of job they enjoy doing all day every day? Is it about pay? Status? Respect? Fulfillment? How many of those boxes can any of them tick simultaneously? How many of those boxes are important to you?

All really the sort of question people ask without expecting an answer..

Best wishes.

A.

 

[SNORGY]

Boy, zeusfaber, that post was well timed. I return to work from 4 weeks holidays tomorrow, and my last week to ten days of that holiday have been destroyed because of how much I'm dreading it. I'm in a huge all-time funk over my career right now, but nothing will end that except going through the exact process that you describe. It's sort of like being in the office working on an ugly design problem that *must* be solved - the time you spend bummed out about how ugly it is will not solve it, you just have to start solving it.

In economic times like this, especially on the EPC side of the business, I think everyone feels a bit like TheMechanicaGenius. My post is not intended to marginalize the theme or hijack the thread, just to reinforce that I think your post nails the path towards the resolution.

I think I should do exactly the same in my own situation.

 

[Guest0527211403]

MG:

You and I are the same age. Actually we followed parallel paths for a while, as I had a 3 year diploma (similar to a technology degree here in Canada), went back to University ~11 years ago, got an engineering degree from a well ranked university, then went out into the working world.

I spent a few years doing design but mostly drafting for a company building industrial machinery, so I had the opportunity to crank out many drawings, and experience many issues on the shop floor due to mistakes (mine and others). Do I love drafting? No. But I've experienced enough of the aforementioned issues to know that simple little mistakes in the drafting process have the potential to throw months of effort and millions of dollars of investment down the tube. So I recognized it was important and when I had a stack of drawings to create / review / approve, I took a deep breath and dove in. As some had also experienced, after a few years of it I managed to propose ideas both for designs as well as process improvements that served the company well. Felt good when it happened, but the drafting work never went away.

About 2 years ago I was contacted by my current employer, who at the time was just a small but growing startup of about 40 people. I joined as a mechanical engineer, and have had the chance to work on some pretty cool stuff. We're in the medical device industry, and our products include optical systems, robotics and medical imaging systems. Sometimes walking through the R&D section feels like walking through Q-Branch in a Bond movie... but guess what? I spend a huge chunk of my time doing... yes... drafting, not to mention procurement, shipping, receiving, building, testing and Change Order-ing (all "grunt work" as you called it). Today my title is Mechanical Engineering Manager, but I like the title "guy with the dirty hands" instead.

I had ZERO experience in medical device design when I joined here, but I had extensive drafting and design experience. In fact, based on my previous experiences as a drafter, I've had the opportunity to write our company's internal design and drafting standards from scratch. As my team grows (company has quadrupled in size since I started) I get to do less of the drafting work, but I will never fully give it up as I have taken ownership over the quality of our company's outgoing drawings.

I guess the point of all of this is to say that the grass is only as green as you are willing to recognize it to be. I would not have been able to do what I'm doing today if I had the attitude that I hated what I was doing. When I was approached about this job, it was made clear that they needed someone who could do much of the company's mechanical drafting as we grew. If I hated drafting, I would not have made the jump to (what was at the time) a high risk startup. Sure, I'd love to be spending all of my days coming up with cool concept designs for the next MRI-guided surgical robot. I know that days like that are in fact on the horizon, but we as a company won't get there tomorrow unless my team and I knock off the pile of drawings on our Next-Actions list today. And once we do come up with that awesome concept, it's going to mean another pile of drawings in our N-A list. We need to take the bitter with the sweet.

But, if you carry this hatred toward your work that you seem to espouse, and want to "get into a mid sized company with a support staff so (you don't) have to do all the grunt work" then its not that likely that you're going to get to do anything truly great. Your choice.

 

[KENAT]

OK Mechanical Genius so what you're saying is CAD drafting etc. is below you.

thread730-221206

If you don't want to do at least some CAD work & drafting then you probably want to become something like project manager or some kind of analyst or the like in much of industry.

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[HamburgerHelper]

If you like engineering, consider possibly taking a job like in controls, power, or something completely outside of mechanical engineering. Power engineering is dying for bodies and substation design and transmission design does use some aspects of mechanical for sizing foundations, and towers for wind,ice, and other loadings. Protection is pretty interesting as well and you probably can get a job with less trouble than you would expect just due to their being a shortage and fresh grads often have had if you are lucky one power class.

Or I suppose if you don't feel it for engineering or engineering isn't feeling you, you could join the other 60% of your graduating class and use your engineering for something outside of engineering like business or finance.

 

[TheMechanicaGenius]

I'm not above any job. I wouldn't mind doing SOME drafting. The last three jobs I had where 90% drafting on a good day. People keep telling me I just don't like engineering. Is this why I went to school for four years? Learned calculus, diff was, fluids, dynamics, fea etc? I had 2 semesters of drafting in engineering technology. I hesitate to even call it drafting because all we did was 3D modeling. I have been told my resume is good. I just an interview and they really liked me but chose anotber candidate.

Just feel like I'm wasting my time. The only experience I have is 2D drafting, so that's all anyone will hire me to do. I mean, yeah project engineering would be awesome. Only problem is you need experience. I looked at getting a pmp cert. but you have to have so many hours experience to even take the test.

If I had to pick a field I would say automotive would be my dream. I work on cars, motorcycles and tractors for fun. Rebuild transmissions, engines do upholstery and paint etc. My guess would be if I applied for a job at any car company I would get an automatic rejection letter immediately. I also really like FEA. Seems like to get those jobs you need at least a PHD and 20 years experience. Project engineering would be good do. I like managing things. I do it for all my personal restoration projects. It's fun to spec parts and develope mental process flow diagrams.

Don't mean to be a downer or whatever but I just feel this is absurd...shouldn't be this hard to do something else engineering related. I even tried to apply for entry level jobs for less money just to get the experience to no avail.
I feel like my best bet is to give up, go back to school AGAIN and try to get an MBA or teaching certification and leave engineering. Never giving up sounds great, but really, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Thanks for all the help, suggestions and encouragent. Sorry to be so negative. Just at the end of my rope. Invested six years and enough money to buy a house and I'm stuck doing something I absolutely hate with no end in sight...

 

[Compositepro]

With that attitude there is nothing you will be successful doing, including personal relationships. Consider the effects you are having on those around you at work. Life is difficult for everyone, at times. Rather than focusing on what others can do to make you happy, try helping your coworkers by not only doing your job well, but helping them however you can. This is what gets you noticed and opens opportunities for advancement that you had no idea existed. The trick to doing this is to have the primary goal of leaving every one you have contact with feeling better than before. Smiling makes others feel better and it will make you feel better, even when you do not feel like smiling. Try imagining that you are watching a video recording of yourself interacting with other people every time you speak. Are you projecting the image of someone whom you would respect? If you feel the urge to say something negative, just do not do it. We do not always have control of our feelings, but we are all always fully responsible for our behavior.

Giving any hint of the attitude you display here, during an interview, will almost certainly kill your chances of getting the job. This is because toxic work environments are created by toxic people. You may not realize it but you appear to be one.

You probably think that if you get that perfect job, you will be happy. That is very unlikely. Once you have basic needs met, like food, shelter, and not being buried in debt, you can be happy in almost any job.

Something I've observed over the years is that people with bad attitudes do not really understand what that means, and therefore do not understand how to correct it. "Attitude" does not mean how you feel inside. It is the behavior you display to others that affects how they feel.

 

[dvd]

Are you drinking enough? Self-medication might help - if you are seriously hungover everyday at work it might not seem so bad.

Otherwise, good luck. Don't quit, or at least don't call it quitting. I hope you find something more fun and challenging. Something with a mechanical contractor might be good, something with short duration projects that each have some new/different aspect. I also think that anything that involves welding is commendable.

 

[TheMechanicaGenius]

While it may be true that I can control my behavior, its really hard, for me at least, to be super excited when im genuinely not. I don't really complain more than anyone else. There are a few people I confide in privately. Some people have however said I appear depressed. I am.

While I'm there, I do the best job I can. Work long hours if necessary to get the work done. But the truth is I just can't get excited about it. I guess doing the work isn't enough if I make others miserable by acting depressed.

I am always positive on interviews. I try to apply at places I would have a sincere interest in working. I try to be friendly, honest and try to have fun with them. I should try that at work maybe.

I will try harder to be positive. I keep telling myself at least I have a job and "this too shall pass". It is good advice to leave people better off after having dealt with them. To be honest I never really thought about what it meant to have a good attitude. I will try harder to put out a more positive vibe at work.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Compositepro]

Good for you! Now that is the right attitude. Seek medical attention if this persists. Drinking reasonably can help, but I suggest avoiding hangovers. Going to your neighborhood bar (as in the show "Cheers") will introduce you to people with greater problems than yours and help you to appreciate your blessings. And lithium tablets are available on the Internet as a "dietary supplement".

 

[TheMechanicaGenius]

Yeah really trying not to go the antidepressants route... We just had a baby so I don't want to drink too much either.

I know plenty of people on antidepressants because they hate their job... I think it's really sad how intolerable most jobs seem to be.

Hope things get better.

 

[KENAT]

A bit of 'suck it up' can go a long way - some days further than others though admittedly.

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[IRstuff]

"Learned calculus, diff was, fluids, dynamics, fea etc? "

Hate to burst your bubble, but I've done more calculus helping my kids with their AP Calc than at work. But, I do have a cheat at work, since most of any integral calculus is done with Mathcad. But, PDE's? No. Schwartz-Christoffel transforms? Never. The point of learning all of that is not that that you necessarily get to apply any or even all of that at work, but that you MIGHT. As an engineer, it's unlikely that anything more than about 10% of your learned math can be applied, since you have FEA tools, Mathcad, Excel, etc., to do that now. But, you do have the math to check the results or do simple preliminary calcs

As an engineer, the bulk of your future WILL involve CAD. The days of having a separate drafter following around an engineer is GONE; partly because the detailed design required almost as much technical chops as the initial conceptual design.


TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //

http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

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[truckandbus]

I never understood mental health issues until it hit close to home for me.

For work issues family and spouse will never get it unless they have the same work issues - a hired ear works best for this

As far as better living through chemistry, never understood it until I saw it work wonders for a friend of mine - you just need to try different meds until you settle on the one that gives you the best results. But I would go as long as I could before going down this path just because getting the right meds can be a struggle in itself

 

[steellion]

Can we stop trying to diagnose the OP with depression or other mental disorders, please? It is inappropriate. I doubt any of you have a background in psychology. He just sounds like a disgruntled employee to me.

As far as my advice to the OP, it would be to find whatever will make you happy and do that thing. There are definitely engineering jobs out there that are less CAD-intensive, but remember that unless you produce widgets, your deliverables are your construction documents, so quality drawings are essential. I rarely draw a single line of CAD because we have a drafting department... but I probably spend half my week or more on marking up and back-checking drawings and making sure they convey my designs as clearly and correctly as possible. I do engineering work every day, but I've done calculus by hand maybe once since college.

 

[ornerynorsk]

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.