Should I stamp my own work as an Employee (Structural Engineer)??? 9

[guanorican]

I'm being asked by the Director of Structural Engineering (My Boss) to stamp my own work and was wondering what has been your experience in the field. Is it normal practice to stamp your own work even though you are a Mid Level Structural engineer. In the past my boss would stamp the work but I recently got my license, hence the change.

My thought is I shouldn't be put into this position. Isn't this the reason the director of a department gets payed what they get payed? To take the responsibility of stamping all the work that leaves the office among other things... I understand that I'm covered under the firm's insurance policy but I still think I'm undertaking a lot of responsibility (which i don't get payed for) in the event of something going wrong. What happens if 5-10 years from now something goes wrong and my name is on the contract drawings? I could be working somewhere else and be brought into the legal fiasco...

Your thoughts?

 

[AELLC]

This is off-topic and very sexist, so cover your eyes if easily offended.

True Story -

Secretary (as they were called back then) was assigned to stamping and signing drawings, and Drafter was on other side of big table, flipping the sheets for her.

Drafter kept tugging the sheets maybe one inch closer to him as he flipped each sheet.

 

[BUGGAR]

I used to seal all my drawings at a previous employer. After I left that company, for years I got calls from building departments about my seal being copied onto other drawings. I didn't get paid for my time to fix this.

 

[cvg]

NSPE definition of responsible charge, which is widely adopted and might apply in your particular jurisdiction:

http://www.nspe.org/resources/issues-and-advocacy/take-action/position-statements/responsible-charge

note that a "boss" which is a fairly generic term, may or may not be able to claim he is "in charge" and so "the boss" may or may not legally stamp the plans.

 

[TDIengineer]

Guanorican-
Congratulations on passing your SE exam!

I actually think that many currently licensed SE's would fail the exam if they tried to retake it today.. .especially if they were licensed more than 10 years ago..

Anyway, that's a different story. Don't let the old grumps around here get you down. But do come prepared with thick skin! You find the website is full of good information, especially from the old farts.

 

[AELLC]

If you are an employee (other than, for example, the chief or senior engineer), even if you have a SE stamp, you should never have to stamp your own projects.

That should always be done by the "boss" or the chief/senior engineer.

 

[rowingengineer]

old fart? grumps? who you calling an old fart? some people would call it experience

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[Ron]

AELLC...I've read lots of your posts and agree most of the time; but have to disagree with on this one.

Before I began my own practice, I was the Chief Engineer and Senior Principal of a branch office of an international engineering firm. We had over a hundred employees reporting to that office and I was responsible for the technical guidance of the group; however, there is no way I could meet the "responsible charge" criteria of every project we had, which included geotechnical engineering, materials engineering, structural engineering, metallurgical engineering and some nebulous disciplines such as asbestos and facilities. Yes, I had to be familiar with each in order to fulfill my technical duties; however, I could not be in charge of several hundred projects per year and give each of them appropriate technical coverage. Each principal engineer in each of the disciplines was responsible for the final review of each of their projects, including signing and sealing the reports.

To have a figurehead signing and sealing all engineering work product is, in my opinion ludicrous, as well as a violation of state law in many jurisdictions. In my forensic engineering practice, I've seen that lead to liability that has brought small firms to their knees.

Old farts rule....right RE?

 

[CELinOttawa]

Title does not equate to responsible.

Whoever is carrying out the technical work, or DIRECTLY supervising the work, is to seal. (Full stop, end of discussion)

 

[AELLC]

Ron,

I have only worked for companies that had fewer than 20 employees, so maybe I had a different perspective.

When you say,

"I've seen that lead to liability that has brought small firms to their knees."

Why does that apply to small firms? Meaning a large firm would have a 20% chunk taken out of it, and a small firm would have a 90% chunk taken out of it?

How big was the firm that did the Hyatt Regency in Kansas, did the lawsuit tank that firm? I am not sure it would have made any difference who stamped those plans - that was caused by a builder honestly suggesting a constructability improvement, then a jr. engineer blindly approved the change to the shop drawings - I have seen where even drafters are put in charge of checking shop drawings.

 

[AELLC]

But, I though about this for about 10 minutes, and came to the conclusion, you and CEL are correct - my opinion was "warped" from having had worked at too many terrible (I should say very hostile environment) companies. Not to say every one of them was that bad, a few were really good.

 

[CBSE]

I'm proud to have my license. Stamping your own work brings an extra degree of satisfaction in completing a job. Without stamping my own work, I really don't feel like I own the project. I feel I really took for granted the liability my boss was taking on while stamping my plans as an EIT. I have a much greater respect for the responsibility in stamping drawings now that I can stamp my own.

 

[Ron]

CBSE....yes! My thoughts exactly in 1981 when I got my license and it remains so today!

 

[acerians]

Check your contract and responsibilities, You were hired with out license in the first place and giving more coverage and responsibility (by sealing should have change). You should not seal as there is chain of command and responsibility, sealing is approval too in the first place, someone must review your design and checked before being issued for construction, unless there is change in your contract or position.

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

I can't believe this isn't clear, rate of pay is not tied to public safety! That's a business decision.

Anyone legally practicing engineering must stamp their work, this works both ways though. Take an EIT or junior PE who has no experience in a field, someone above them has to be personally involved overseeing the work or comfortable with results and stamp it. The buck stops there! Pardon the pun.

VoD

 

[AELLC]

Well, if these companies would stop laying off all their over-40 employees, they wouldn't have to worry about all their newbie-EIT people screwing up (I have numerous war stories there)

 

[Qshake]

Ron - I agree with your posts. And I disagree with AELLC on the matter, especially on why firms need plenty of O&E insurance.

THe need for O&E insurance is not because the boss didn't perform a final review of the calculations, it's because the final calculations were done wrong in the first place which speaks volumes about the originator of those calcs. After many, many years of developing calculations and plans I can look at a set of structural plans and if something is amiss I will see it. Then I check the calcs to make sure they were checked and then if there is a mistake or misundertanding of the design criteria. If there is I, then as a supervisor, I have a talk with both the originator and checker.

As supervisors or managers for departments we are responsible for not only the overall quality of the plans going out the door but the quality of people we hire and to see that they are trained, mentored adequately. As a result, I expect my engineers to want to seal plans/calcs etc that they are involved with.

If your company doesn't have a process in place to address checking calcs and plans you should implement one. then there will be less need for E&O but in reality no one company can afford to go without.



Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[AELLC]

I don't think I said firms with all over 40 employees don't need in E&O, I believe I said firms with all under-40's get into a lot more trouble.