I graduated in May 2010 with a mechanical engineering degree and have been actively job searching. I want to get into HVAC and sustainable design, and work for an engineering firm. I have not had an internship and am not proficient in AutoCAD, but I have a high GPA. Should I take a couple of weeks to teach myself AutoCAD to improve my resume? Any tips or suggestions are appreciated.
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Should I teach myself AutoCAD to improve resume? 2
- Thread starter MEGrad123
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davidinindy
Industrial
I have landed two jobs because I taught myself CAD packages.
I'd been using Cadkey for 10 years, which most people had never heard of. to be employable, I got a Solidworks personal edition CD from the local VAR, and went thru all of the tutorials, and then modeled up some items I had laying around. I was careful not to say "profecient" or "expert" at Solidworks on my resume. I said something like "familiar", or something similar.
While working that job, I also got my hands on Pro-E and taught myself during lunch hours (They had multiple CAD systems). When one contract was up, I was moved onto another contract where I used Pro-E. I gained some work experience with it, and have ended up using it in all my jobs since.
So... in the end.. YES it's worth teaching yourself, but a good point was made about attending a class and making connections... This world is all about who you know... Networking is very valuable!!
David
I'd been using Cadkey for 10 years, which most people had never heard of. to be employable, I got a Solidworks personal edition CD from the local VAR, and went thru all of the tutorials, and then modeled up some items I had laying around. I was careful not to say "profecient" or "expert" at Solidworks on my resume. I said something like "familiar", or something similar.
While working that job, I also got my hands on Pro-E and taught myself during lunch hours (They had multiple CAD systems). When one contract was up, I was moved onto another contract where I used Pro-E. I gained some work experience with it, and have ended up using it in all my jobs since.
So... in the end.. YES it's worth teaching yourself, but a good point was made about attending a class and making connections... This world is all about who you know... Networking is very valuable!!
David
Many years ago I had taught myself AutoCad and was ok with it but I was no world class Cad user, but I was (and still am) a good engineer. I got a contract to work for an aerospace organization which required the engineers to do their own Cad work.
The manager wanted to pay me six dollars an hour less than my asking rate (at that time nearly 20 years ago was $48/hour, he wanted to pay me $42/hour). When I took their incoming AutoCad test (yes they had one) I had not scored in the highest speed category and he felt justified in offering the lower rate.
Rather than argue I saw this as an opportunity. I accepted the contract offer because he stated if I could reach the highest speed category within 30 days he would bump my rate to the requested $48/hour. He also mentioned the local community college had a good AutoCad instructor just starting a class.
I took the hint and registered fo the class, which because it was at a community college and I was a resident of the state was dirt cheap. I also took on every AutoCad task I could at work so I was getting practice every day and two nights a week at the school.
I easily hit the highest speed category within 30 days and got the raise and worked that contract for over two years at my desired rate.
My point is this: I perfer engineering to Cad work any day, but at least at most of the places I have worked (both contract and direct) engineers are expected to do their own Cad work as well. Teaching myself AutoCad, and jumping at an opportunity to sharpen my skills has always opened more doors that I would have had open without AutoCad skills.
I have since taught myself SolidWorks as well, and had more opportunities open up where I work now as a direct employee.
The manager wanted to pay me six dollars an hour less than my asking rate (at that time nearly 20 years ago was $48/hour, he wanted to pay me $42/hour). When I took their incoming AutoCad test (yes they had one) I had not scored in the highest speed category and he felt justified in offering the lower rate.
Rather than argue I saw this as an opportunity. I accepted the contract offer because he stated if I could reach the highest speed category within 30 days he would bump my rate to the requested $48/hour. He also mentioned the local community college had a good AutoCad instructor just starting a class.
I took the hint and registered fo the class, which because it was at a community college and I was a resident of the state was dirt cheap. I also took on every AutoCad task I could at work so I was getting practice every day and two nights a week at the school.
I easily hit the highest speed category within 30 days and got the raise and worked that contract for over two years at my desired rate.
My point is this: I perfer engineering to Cad work any day, but at least at most of the places I have worked (both contract and direct) engineers are expected to do their own Cad work as well. Teaching myself AutoCad, and jumping at an opportunity to sharpen my skills has always opened more doors that I would have had open without AutoCad skills.
I have since taught myself SolidWorks as well, and had more opportunities open up where I work now as a direct employee.
- Thread starter
- #23
I enjoy hearing everyone's experiences. I was hoping to be able to join a firm and be able to learn AutoCad there, but I feel that this will get me a good head start. I just hope that I will be able to find some good tutorials and exercises without having to pay too much.
I personally learned CAD first and then got my BSc and became an engineer. I also learned hand-drafting BEFORE autocad.Although its easy to get pigeon holed into doing CAD, it is a good thing to have as others have pointed out. For the building industry it is essential. Even to just estimate and plan what work needs to be done by drafters.
In the building industry for better or worse BIM is the new buzzword and trend. Take a community college course in REVIT. It could put you in a much better place competatively.
In the building industry for better or worse BIM is the new buzzword and trend. Take a community college course in REVIT. It could put you in a much better place competatively.
HPRifleman
Mechanical
When I graduated my resume looked no different than any other entry level engineer. The only thing that differentiated me was that I learned AutoCad (on my own) at school. After sending them my resume, the primary reason prospective employers called me about openings was that I knew AutoCad.
That being said, I learned more about AutoCad in one month of employment than I did in just playing around with it in school.
Learning some type of CAD package is much more valuable than your GPA. A practical skill trumps impressive grades.
That being said, I learned more about AutoCad in one month of employment than I did in just playing around with it in school.
Learning some type of CAD package is much more valuable than your GPA. A practical skill trumps impressive grades.
eQuest and DOE-2 are free building energy simulators. I interviewed for a mech EIT position and the principal took notice when I said I had some interest and time into the program. Since HVAC is frequently a consulting job, taking the FE wouldn't hurt either. Get a study guide now and apply for october (april deadline). You can get the $235 pencil w/o losing too much sleep. That being said, I haven't heard back about the job.
MEGrad123
As others have said here, check out the community colleges for CAD courses. Also check local high schools for ROP courses in CAD. Very often you can enroll in these for no cost.
A solid modeling program called Alibre is available on the internet for free for 30 days, after which it will turn into a limited function free program called Alibre Express.
It is very similar to Solidworks, in its interface, and proficiency in that will get you in the door of a lot of companies using Solidworks or Pro-E. Also some corporations are now using Alibre Professional as their in house CAD program.
B.E.
As others have said here, check out the community colleges for CAD courses. Also check local high schools for ROP courses in CAD. Very often you can enroll in these for no cost.
A solid modeling program called Alibre is available on the internet for free for 30 days, after which it will turn into a limited function free program called Alibre Express.
It is very similar to Solidworks, in its interface, and proficiency in that will get you in the door of a lot of companies using Solidworks or Pro-E. Also some corporations are now using Alibre Professional as their in house CAD program.
B.E.
bridgebuster
New member
It can't hurt. About 20 years ago I bought a book on AutoCad and taught myself, but CAD has gotten much more complex. If you think you'll be doing a lot of intricate 3D work and fancy renderings, you might want to consider taking some courses.
If you're just doing simple 2D drawings you can probably learn it on your own. Keep in mind if you're not going to use CAD on a regular basis it's easy to forget.
Don't get the notion - that a lot of young engineers have - that drawing is beneath you. How do you think drawings get developed? Drafters can't read your mind.
If you're just doing simple 2D drawings you can probably learn it on your own. Keep in mind if you're not going to use CAD on a regular basis it's easy to forget.
Don't get the notion - that a lot of young engineers have - that drawing is beneath you. How do you think drawings get developed? Drafters can't read your mind.
I think AutoCad is almost insignificant on a resume because every engineer should know how to work with basic tools. In our shop only the engineers with sharply limited prospects that have no cad skills.
As a professional it's up to you to bring skills to a job.
Also, how do you feel about going home on time when there is a last minute correction to be made.
Absent cad skills, you risk falling victim to cumbersome Redline processes with backlogs, and cocky drafting people trying to justify growth of their department or more OT.
It's just as fast for me to make the corrections in the file than it is to work up a redline and run it through drafting and wait. Even then, if the drafting person doesn't check their work, you repeat the cycle and wait longer.
If drafting is under another branch of the organization, someone else may control how much of your weekend you get.
I think of our drafting department as Jurassic Park.
As a professional it's up to you to bring skills to a job.
Also, how do you feel about going home on time when there is a last minute correction to be made.
Absent cad skills, you risk falling victim to cumbersome Redline processes with backlogs, and cocky drafting people trying to justify growth of their department or more OT.
It's just as fast for me to make the corrections in the file than it is to work up a redline and run it through drafting and wait. Even then, if the drafting person doesn't check their work, you repeat the cycle and wait longer.
If drafting is under another branch of the organization, someone else may control how much of your weekend you get.
I think of our drafting department as Jurassic Park.
bridgebuster
New member
"I think of our drafting department as Jurassic Park." Kontiki, you raise a number of valid points.
Perhaps we can start a new thread about the role or necessity of CAD opperators?
Perhaps we can start a new thread about the role or necessity of CAD opperators?
We used to have (oh, I guess he is still here...) a drafter who came in at 4am and left at noon. Supposedly could get more done when it was quiet. The one time I came in that early to check on things, he was asleep. But, kind of like a tenured teacher, very hard to get rid of since that was about 15 years ago. Another one would come in early and spend that time reading the paper. Not sure if he was on the clock or not.
Our company, for the first time that I am aware of, has created CAD drafter positions. Since our company has always expected our engineers to do their own drafting (and because I am distrustful of corporate leadership in America), I fear I know the reason.
I am guessing the plan is to hire "CAD Drafters" at the lower rates of these new job descriptions, and over time we experienced engineers will be tasked to train them in engineering because "they will want to have upward mobility too". Then sometime down the road the company will be able to have mostly low paid but supposedly "trained" individuals and can stop hiring genuine engineers at the going rate.
I hope I am wrong.
My industry is aviation where we don't often have genuine engineers anyway since we all work under the auspices of a DER rather than a Professional Engineer. Thus we often use individuals with experience only rather than an engineering degree plus experience. (For full disclosure that includes me, 36 years experience, no engineering degree.)
I am guessing the plan is to hire "CAD Drafters" at the lower rates of these new job descriptions, and over time we experienced engineers will be tasked to train them in engineering because "they will want to have upward mobility too". Then sometime down the road the company will be able to have mostly low paid but supposedly "trained" individuals and can stop hiring genuine engineers at the going rate.
I hope I am wrong.
My industry is aviation where we don't often have genuine engineers anyway since we all work under the auspices of a DER rather than a Professional Engineer. Thus we often use individuals with experience only rather than an engineering degree plus experience. (For full disclosure that includes me, 36 years experience, no engineering degree.)
If I were in your postion I would train myself enough to feel comfortable putting it on a resume. If I were considering employing you, I would value some practical experience working for a trade if that is an option. As an employer I know practical experience helps you solve problems a lot quicker and usually field crews will respect you more once they figure out you have this experience.
CAD has become increasingly more complex these days and a lot of firms need to use these features to complete projects quicker. I have one client that took a 3month night course and sends us drawings. Those drawings are horrible since he lacks a great deal of basic drafting skills.
Brad
CAD has become increasingly more complex these days and a lot of firms need to use these features to complete projects quicker. I have one client that took a 3month night course and sends us drawings. Those drawings are horrible since he lacks a great deal of basic drafting skills.
Brad
(Sorry if the tone comes across as grouchy.... been a long couple days)
Speaking kind of from the other end of the spectrum, I am primarily a drafter, in charge of one of the drafting teams that we have here, and I see a lot of variance. (Not an engineer, never went to school for engineering.... learned autocad, and that's been that.)
There are engineers that look down on me, or treat me like dirt because I haven't had the training and classroom experience to "make myself worth something and get my stamp" (yes, actually had something like that said directly to me) but, when it all hits the fan on deadlines, some of those are the same guys puckering up for me to get their drawings done so they can send them out the door, because they never learned the "tools of the lower masses"
Some of the registered engineers that we have in-house can maneuver through autocad, to get simple dimensions or add straight lines or text, but that's about it.
We also have engineers that are pretty adept at mid level autocad activities (no or little 3d, familiar with xclips, dynamic blocks, etc, but little to no experience setting them up)
Then, we have drafters, that can muddle their way through but know less than some of the engineers.
Last, we have a few that are pretty adept in most levels of autocad, including 3d, and can get it to dance to about any tune.
Best projects are those with the capable drafters, and engineers that know autocad pretty well.
Worst projects, and always profit loss jobs, are those that have the lower level drafters and engineers that don't know it either.
Could all that be corrected? Sure... but politics......
Anyway, all that boils down to say, learn as much of it as you can. Even if you don't use it often, when you can teach the "drafters" that should know better new tricks... one more reason to make yourself indispensable. (assuming the company looks at performance instead of "who knows the dirt politics")
Beyond that, as mentioned above, I would also HIGHLY recommend some type of board drafting class, if you've never had one. As I explain it to people here, running autocad is not drafting. Drafting is a way to convey information in a logical, legible manner, and board drafting makes you think more for that, with sheet layout, which views to draw, etc. With that, it's not quite as easy as saveas and change a note.
Autocad is a tool to use to convey that information, but I believe definitely worth learning. (Minus the whole 3d modeling that... that's an entirely different world.)
If not autocad, depending on your field, then Revit, Inventor, Solidworks, Catia, etc. The more you know, the more youhave to offer.
Speaking kind of from the other end of the spectrum, I am primarily a drafter, in charge of one of the drafting teams that we have here, and I see a lot of variance. (Not an engineer, never went to school for engineering.... learned autocad, and that's been that.)
There are engineers that look down on me, or treat me like dirt because I haven't had the training and classroom experience to "make myself worth something and get my stamp" (yes, actually had something like that said directly to me) but, when it all hits the fan on deadlines, some of those are the same guys puckering up for me to get their drawings done so they can send them out the door, because they never learned the "tools of the lower masses"
Some of the registered engineers that we have in-house can maneuver through autocad, to get simple dimensions or add straight lines or text, but that's about it.
We also have engineers that are pretty adept at mid level autocad activities (no or little 3d, familiar with xclips, dynamic blocks, etc, but little to no experience setting them up)
Then, we have drafters, that can muddle their way through but know less than some of the engineers.
Last, we have a few that are pretty adept in most levels of autocad, including 3d, and can get it to dance to about any tune.
Best projects are those with the capable drafters, and engineers that know autocad pretty well.
Worst projects, and always profit loss jobs, are those that have the lower level drafters and engineers that don't know it either.
Could all that be corrected? Sure... but politics......
Anyway, all that boils down to say, learn as much of it as you can. Even if you don't use it often, when you can teach the "drafters" that should know better new tricks... one more reason to make yourself indispensable. (assuming the company looks at performance instead of "who knows the dirt politics")
Beyond that, as mentioned above, I would also HIGHLY recommend some type of board drafting class, if you've never had one. As I explain it to people here, running autocad is not drafting. Drafting is a way to convey information in a logical, legible manner, and board drafting makes you think more for that, with sheet layout, which views to draw, etc. With that, it's not quite as easy as saveas and change a note.
Autocad is a tool to use to convey that information, but I believe definitely worth learning. (Minus the whole 3d modeling that... that's an entirely different world.)
If not autocad, depending on your field, then Revit, Inventor, Solidworks, Catia, etc. The more you know, the more youhave to offer.
This is the age when engineering goes hand in hand with CAD. Employers want to hire a multi disciplined engineer who can perform on several levels. However, I have come across engineers who have abandoned the analytical side in favor of CAD. which produces high paid draftsmen.
I took an "AutoCAD for Professionals" class at the local junior college. It was 8 hours on 4 consecutive Saturdays. They assumed you knew WHAT you wanted to draw, so this was about using the program, not "How to draft".
They also have 2-year associate degree programs in drafting. I think there, you take a course on drawing houses, one on machine drafting, etc., so they're trying to teach you how to draw the subject material in question as opposed to just the software.
My experience is that the 32-hour course was a good introduction to the subject, but doesn't begin to make you a master of it, either. (If you were proficient at other equally advanced CAD programs, that might be a different matter.) Even now, ten or twelve years later, I'm still learning stuff as I go.
I can't say if it would help to learn it, but sure wouldn't hurt, either.
They also have 2-year associate degree programs in drafting. I think there, you take a course on drawing houses, one on machine drafting, etc., so they're trying to teach you how to draw the subject material in question as opposed to just the software.
My experience is that the 32-hour course was a good introduction to the subject, but doesn't begin to make you a master of it, either. (If you were proficient at other equally advanced CAD programs, that might be a different matter.) Even now, ten or twelve years later, I'm still learning stuff as I go.
I can't say if it would help to learn it, but sure wouldn't hurt, either.
MEgrad123,
One question: - first a comment. I am surprised at your statement. I guess I supposed that modern day grads learned a rudimentary amount of CAD. When I graduated back in the slide rule days, we learned board drafting, and after entry into the engineering world, there wasn't anything a drafter could do on a board that I couldn't do. They could do it with better quality and speed, because it was their day job, but they all knew I could tape a sheet to a board and produce a drawing if I needed to, or take an eraser and make a change to their drawing.
I still have all the drafting tools, and several younger engineers that are VERY CAD literate have given me some admiring looks when shown sketches that I drafted up in pencil. I took it that they didn't know how to do that.
So my question is, what if any type of drafting did you get with a ME education?
Right now, I don't know any type of CAD. They knew that when they hired me, and while I will have several CAD drafters working for me at any given time, I can't do much more than open the drawings and look at layers and print them. I don't want to know any more than that. What I know all these young bucks and gals that can do CAD don't know, and I am considered a valuable asset to the company; but it is experience, not CAD skills that earns that for me.
rmw
One question: - first a comment. I am surprised at your statement. I guess I supposed that modern day grads learned a rudimentary amount of CAD. When I graduated back in the slide rule days, we learned board drafting, and after entry into the engineering world, there wasn't anything a drafter could do on a board that I couldn't do. They could do it with better quality and speed, because it was their day job, but they all knew I could tape a sheet to a board and produce a drawing if I needed to, or take an eraser and make a change to their drawing.
I still have all the drafting tools, and several younger engineers that are VERY CAD literate have given me some admiring looks when shown sketches that I drafted up in pencil. I took it that they didn't know how to do that.
So my question is, what if any type of drafting did you get with a ME education?
Right now, I don't know any type of CAD. They knew that when they hired me, and while I will have several CAD drafters working for me at any given time, I can't do much more than open the drawings and look at layers and print them. I don't want to know any more than that. What I know all these young bucks and gals that can do CAD don't know, and I am considered a valuable asset to the company; but it is experience, not CAD skills that earns that for me.
rmw
That's pretty old school ;-) but the trend in the last 30 yrs is to do away with:
"secretaries" that did your memos for you
"drafters" that did your drawings for you
"techs" that did your measurements for you
Ostensbily, a new hire that is familiar with some sort of CAD, not necessarily Autocad, will be viewed with some level of favor, since it's obvious you won't need someone else to do your drawings, compared with someone with no CAD experience. However, most starting MEs presumably would be detailing a senior engineer's rough drawings, although that's not always the case.
I wouldn't get terribly excited about in-depth Autocad knowledge, since my company, for example, is standardized on Pro/E, while others might be standardized on SolidWorks. If you want to widen your appeal, then you might actually be better off knowing a little about several different CAD packages, rather than a lot about just one package.
You should also be sufficiently familiar with ASME Y14 symbology and tolerancing, as well as some basic best practices with regard to datum selection and how parts are actually made on CNC machines. I've seen some bad practices where the designer assumed that disparate pads would be parallel, based on offsets from a datum, without specifying a parallelism tolerance; we had to send them back for lapping.
So, understanding of tolerancing would seem to be a really good skill to have and to show off.
Bear in mind that stating "familiarity" with any specific topic may draw questions from an interviewer, so make sure that you really are "familiar" with the things you put on your resume. Nothing more embarassing to have to admit that your "familiarity" with a CAD package amounts to having seen someone else use the program. I've had several interviewees that failed that basic test.
TTFN
FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize
"secretaries" that did your memos for you
"drafters" that did your drawings for you
"techs" that did your measurements for you
Ostensbily, a new hire that is familiar with some sort of CAD, not necessarily Autocad, will be viewed with some level of favor, since it's obvious you won't need someone else to do your drawings, compared with someone with no CAD experience. However, most starting MEs presumably would be detailing a senior engineer's rough drawings, although that's not always the case.
I wouldn't get terribly excited about in-depth Autocad knowledge, since my company, for example, is standardized on Pro/E, while others might be standardized on SolidWorks. If you want to widen your appeal, then you might actually be better off knowing a little about several different CAD packages, rather than a lot about just one package.
You should also be sufficiently familiar with ASME Y14 symbology and tolerancing, as well as some basic best practices with regard to datum selection and how parts are actually made on CNC machines. I've seen some bad practices where the designer assumed that disparate pads would be parallel, based on offsets from a datum, without specifying a parallelism tolerance; we had to send them back for lapping.
So, understanding of tolerancing would seem to be a really good skill to have and to show off.
Bear in mind that stating "familiarity" with any specific topic may draw questions from an interviewer, so make sure that you really are "familiar" with the things you put on your resume. Nothing more embarassing to have to admit that your "familiarity" with a CAD package amounts to having seen someone else use the program. I've had several interviewees that failed that basic test.
TTFN
FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize
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