Simple it is not. 7

[Enginerd9]

Does anyone have a good list of basic function sequences, such as "rotate drawing view" or similar simple functions? Hopefully it's not like everything else in ProE: convoluted, overly complicated, and requiring a degree of Computer Engineer or IT background.

Thanks!

 

[drfaust]

Now that is a strange way to ask for help! LOL!!!

 

[REDesigner09]

Hey Enginerd9,

Looks like you & I have the same perspective towards ProE!!

ProE, compared to other CAD packages is a bit more tedious & time consuming, but all is doable if one has the patients "& time" to work through the multiple steps.

 

[dgallup]

Waahh waahh waahh. When I was a boy we made non-parametric Boolean primitives and we liked it. We made non-associative 2D drawing views and we liked it. Now if it has a command structure different than MS Orifice it's too hard to learn, I can't read the manual, please tell me how to do my job.

 

[looslib]

If you want to get the most out of a CAD tool like Pro/E, take a training class or two.
I started using CAD in 1978 on an Applicon 880 system at college. Most of the learning was by reading the manual and figuring out what the commands did. I have since then used CADDS-IV, UG/NX, Pro/Engineer and some CATIA. I had formal training on UGII and Wildfire. I can open files in AutoCAD and Inventor, too.
If you or your company won't pay for training, then try an online training like at

http://www.igetit.com.

If they have invested in the tool, they should also invest in the toolmaker to utilize the tool to its fullest.

Every racecar in the Indy 500 is built by Dallara, yet they don't all have the same performance when they hit the track. It is the customization and knowledge of the vehicle that makes the difference. The same applies to CAD systems and customization and training.


"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

 

[Enginerd9]

I'm going to use a naughty word here and say that SOLIDWORKS is so much better. For example, placing a crosshair mark on a radius or circle in a drawing and connecting patterns with a witness line: SolidWorks is click. Done. ProE is insert axis in the model, show axis on drawing, click 3 other buttons, then hope it worked out right and you don't have to go play with the layer settings.

I'm not whining. But, I do think it's horribly inefficient to have this much overhead to "do my job." I'm not a computer programmer, I'm an engineer. I do engineering. And I'm damn good at it. I expect my software to just work, and when it doesn't... send it to the programmers so they can spend their time fixing it rather than wasting my project time. "When I was a boy" sounds nice and all... I guess that's back when you had to walk to school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways, huh?

 

[dgallup]

Yes we did! And we liked it!

Wait till your salidworks model fails because of all the automatic assumptions built into the software can't deliver the changes you need. You will spend way more time rebuilding it than it takes to show an axis. Besides, Pro/e makes all the axis I need to show for me.

 

[Enginerd9]

Then, how do I make it automatically insert axes on radii, for example? Does this require a mapkey?

 

[Enginerd9]

... speaking of model regeneration fail, isn't that one of the deficiencies ProE "fixed" with WF5? I mean, didn't ProE lock you in and endless loop of failed features until it was completely happy with the slight change you made to one feature? SolidWorks never did that to me. It would tell me something failed, supress the failed features and their children, and let me go about my business. I could then discern for myself the root cause of failure and simply make one small correction, then everything automatically regenerated successfully. It seems I have yet another thing to add to the SolidWorks is better list. lol

Or, how's about inserting a datum plane symmetricly between two parallel surfaces? SolidWorks does it in 3 clicks or less. (Insert Datum Plane, Select Surfaces, Done) In ProE you have to measure the distance, manually calculate the half-way point, then insert an offset plane from one of the desired surfaces. Then, when the geometry updates later due to some change you have to make, you need to go redefine the placement of that plane. In SolidWorks, it updates automatically because the relationship is maintained internally rather than by a dimention off of only one of the surfaces. Alternatively, you could set up a "relation" between the two dimensions in ProE (the half-way mark for plane insertion and the driving dimension in the part), but there's another set of clicks involved with that.

My point is, overhead. ProE has too much of it. It's distracting, and I'm simply trying to find ways to make it less of an issue.

 

[shoelace]

The trouble with SolidWorks is that it bends over to be so friendly & automatic that it's users often do not have a sense of the fundemental workings of the software and how to use it at a high level. This is fine for one-off smaller assemblies - but it can be very problematic when it comes to more serious design projects across a large organisation. From my experience, a Pro/E user can pick up SolidWorks and join a project without stuffing anything up - not often true the other way around.

 

[fighterpilot]

Enginerd9 said "For example, placing a crosshair mark on a radius or circle in a drawing and connecting patterns with a witness line: SolidWorks is click. Done. ProE is insert axis in the model, show axis on drawing, click 3 other buttons, then hope it worked out right and you don't have to go play with the layer settings."

What are you talking about? It's just Show/Model/Axis in the drawing. You don't need to create an axis in the model. If Pro/E is setup properly, it will create them automatically. In config.pro it used to be show_axis_extruded_arcs = yes from what I remember. Most people's issues with Pro/E come from lack of administration and improper setup of config files, drawing setup files, etc. I think you need to spend some time in the beginning getting everything set up properly. It will pay dividends down the road.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

 

[Enginerd9]

ProE does not insert an axis when you have a sketch driven radius for a sheet metal bend, for example. Look again.

Furthermore, a center mark for a circle should be driven by the profile of that circle, NOT some axis which is either there or not, depending on how you've programmed your system.

 

[Enginerd9]

I found your config.pro setting, I applied it, and it still doesn't display those axes on the bend radii of this part... hmm.

 

[fighterpilot]

"ProE does not insert an axis when you have a sketch driven radius for a sheet metal bend, for example. Look again."

You didn't say you were working in sheet metal mode. Ask the right question next time. And it will insert an axis for a radius created in sketcher if you have the config.pro setting set. I spent years as a user and an admin on Pro/E from version 12 all the way up to the first Wildfire, I know.

BTW, how much formal training have you had in Pro/E and it's modules? Do you have a dedicated administrator for Pro/E? Is that person a Pro/E user or just some IT person?

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

 

[Enginerd9]

We have limited ProE support, and it's more like "in soviet Russia, ProE uses YOU!" kind of stuff. There might be training, but I don't know where it is or how to get it.

I've been a SolidWorks guy for almost 10 years. I can do a lot of really complicated and crazy things in that package, with the same results as ProE, but I can do it faster because I don't have to be an Engineer / Computer Programmer to use it.

So, the basic point is this: Why do we do what we do? Why do we have a job? Because the MARKET drives the need for what we do, and our job is to provide that market with what they need. So, as far as CAD goes... guess who the market is? Me! You! Etc...

So, if I were the only one having these issues with ProE, I would be inclined to just suck it up and learn. But, if you read the forums at all, you'll notice there are PLENTY of people who feel the same way I do. It seems to me that the market is speaking in a strong voice, I'm just wondering if / when the ProE Experts will finally just accept the fact that their beloved package needs help to really compete in a market which has been re-defined by packages like SolidWorks and Catia. I think if ProE wants to remain competitive, they really need to re-think their strategy for reaching out to their market.

 

[fighterpilot]

I understand where you're coming from. When I moved off of Pro/E back in 2004/2005 I moved to Catia V5. It was pretty similar to Pro/E but it has no administration support and I really had to learn that side of it to be successful. I was also given formal training which helped.

After V5 I moved to Unigraphics NX. It was a difficult move because modeling in UG was not how I modeled in Pro/E. As NX moved to version 5 and now 6 it has become more feature based and I've found it easier to get along. Drawings in UG suck to put it mildly. After making all my features parametric in the model I still have to create dimensions for my drawings. The push is to using the model for everything but in the real world, that's not realistic.

Pro/E is very powerful and when set up properly it can save an enormous amount of time. If you can get someone to spring for at least some basic modeling and assy training as well as any specific module training it will pay for itself quickly. Administration functions only need to be setup once and you can probably get most of your answers from the forums.

With respect to administration you need to set your config.sup, global config.pro and then a local config.pro. Also, a drawing detail file and standard drawing formats with embedded tables. Then you need standard start and assembly models with parameters which will feed those drawing tables. Once you get those set you at least have a baseline to move forward.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

 

[Enginerd9]

Of course, we do have those set up as "generic" defaults. I've been working on building my personal config.pro file for a while, but a lot of the time you don't know what you want until it slaps you in the face. I guess that's why I started this thread with "does anyone have a good list of things." The only thing I'm not the least bit excited about is having to create these "mapkeys" or some kind of long, involved macro command setting for doing simple things like printing to pdf (which I've already done, unfortunately). There are just certain things that are completely ok to do using some very basic and reasonable assumptions, and in my mind the programmers should have taken care of these things already.

But, alas, it is what it is. So, back to the original question, perhaps phrased differently: Does anyone have a good list of things to look for in a config file, mapkey (if applicable), etc. which can help get the interface set up to do some very common tasks or modeling / drafting practices necessary for an Engineer to successfully do their job without having to learn to be a programmer for longer than it takes to get it set up the first time?

Thanks!

 

[fighterpilot]

When I get home tonight I'll see if I have my standard admin stuff from when I was doing Pro/E work. It will be for one of the earlier Wildfire versions but at least you will get a feel for the format and the important. You're free to see if any of it will work in your setup. I didn't see where you said what Pro/E version you were running.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

 

[Enginerd9]

I'm running WF5 right now, but if I have a good starting point I can pretty much figure out the process.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to the info!

 

[fighterpilot]

Enginer9,

Ok, I have a zip of the layout of what I used here at home when I was running Pro/E student edition. Some of these files you'll be able to open, others not. Notice directory structure and how the configs are laid out, structure is important to keeping things simple and understandable.

Also, see the following thread from a few years ago. It gives some info as well.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=223981

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer