Simplicity Approaching Functional Perfection 19

[jheidt2543]

“The highest attainment in design is a simplicity approaching functional perfection.”
- Linton E. Grinter, Ph.D., C.E.

“Nothing discredits the usefulness of theory as a practical design tool so much as the use of theoretical toys. It is often true that theory tends to become an end in itself instead of a tool for practical use. The literature is full of formulas, graphs, and mathematical studies that are of interest mainly because of their intricacy. This criticism is in no way intended to discredit sound analytical studies, however complex. Mathematics should neither be avoided nor displayed.”
- Linton E. Grinter, Ph.D., C.E.
Vice President and Dean of the Graduate School,
Illinois Institute of Technology in
Design of Modern Steel Structures
The MacMillan Company, 1941, p. 3

I wonder what Professor Grinter would say about structural design today, some 70 years after making the above statement? He saw the future and didn’t know it! The problem today, as I see it, is the compounding of the “theoretical toys” mixing with the evolution of extremely complex building codes that change every 3 to 5 years.

I'm just wondering what others have to say about Professor Grinter’s comment and what, if anything we can do about it?

 

[csd72]

epitome,

my original comment was aimed at hokie who said that communication was just as important as technical skill.

As a raw graduate you need to understand the technical side and one would hope that the senior engineer above you would understand the technicalities so they could explain them to your client.

You have a few years as a graduate engineer before you normally would need to front up to clients and this is plenty of time to develop communication skills.

Why are we one of the only professions that believes that we can grow competence without any on the job training?

As I do not know you personally I can only go by what you say in your post and I meant no insult. There are actually engineers out there that do only simple structures and dont do anything more complicated than wl^2/8 but I take it that you are not one of them.

 

[graybeach]

Another thing about communication - it's not just about the text of written documents. Our drawings are supposed to communicate the design intent to the contractor. The concept of "simplicity approaching functional perfection" should be applied to the drawings themselves as well as the things shown on the drawings. This is part of the art of engineering. To create drawings (and specifications and whatever the BIM equivalent of drawings is) one needs to visualize how content will be interpreted and constantly evaluate and adjust. Someone who refuses to do this is never going to be a "good engineer".

 

[epitome1170]

CSD-

Agree that we need to understand the technical side and gather more knowledge from our senior engineers. My thought though is that the communication skills is what is lost and never really learned. I feel like that is much more difficult to gain out of college than if we began to learn more of it in college.

 

[271828]

...What I am saying is what good is it if you can't communicate?

Two questions:

Do you guys actually know a structural engineer who cannot orally communicate well enough that it's holding him back on the job?

Do you guys actually know a structural engineer who cannot write a memo, letter, short report, write notes on structural drawings, or edit project manuals and it's affecting his ability to do well?

I'll go ahead and answer from my experience: No and no. My experience is that every structural engineer with a MS can do these and the ones who climb the ladder are the ones with the best combo of technical expertise, time management (they don't waste time), willingness to work extra hours when necessary, and good personality. Maybe I'm the weird one.

 

[epitome1170]

I agree that the ones that climb the ladder and advance are the ones that are the best in the aforementioned items.

Having said that do I know someone where it holds them back? Absolutely!

Is he incapable to communicating? No, but he definitely does not do it very well and clients have gone out of their way to request me over this other guy because they do not perceive that he is as intelligent (he has 15 years of experience on me and is more than capable to satisfy their engineering needs). This perception is due to his "inability to effectively communicate". Consulting engineering is more than just reports and memos along with the engineering aspect. You HAVE to be able to convey your points to clients that no nothing about engineering (and without making them feel stupid in the process).

 

[271828]

When I've heard that someone couldn't "communicate effectively," that has usually been because the guy isn't quick to return calls, isn't replying to emails fast enough, only communicates part of what is needed, etc. (Those aren't problems that are corrected with additional technical writing classes or exercises in college.)

Are you sure that's not what they're referring to. (yes, I know I ended a sentence with "to"! I type good.)

 

[vmirat]

It seems to me that this post was originally focused on the current complexity of codes. With that said, all of the codes in the world are worthless unless they are adopted by someone and made the law of the land. We need to lobby our local building officials and talk to them about what codes they do or do not adopt or how they admend/append them. Where I'm at, the local buildining department refused to adopt the 2000 IBC because they felt it was so poorly written. The did adopt the 2003, eventually, except for the IPC. However, there is a perception that, if they don't adopt the most recent code, then they could be held liable for not keeping up with the times. There is a lot of faith put into the various organizations writing these codes.

 

[vmirat]

On another note. I'm wondering if structural engineering is one of those disciplines that just has to extend into MS degree level to be of practical educational value. Although 271828 and I have had disagreements in the past, I would like to give him credit for the insight he provides from the academic viewpoint. I've done mentoring, free gradis, for newly graduated engineers at other firms and clueless doesn't even begin to describe the lack of understanding they have. The value of a mentor cannot be overstated.

 

[epitome1170]

271828

Positive that is not what they are referencing.

Put simply, some engineers do not know how to convey their ideas well.

 

[271828]

I'd love to see an example so that I can understand where you're coming from. What aspects of his communication skills are lacking? For example, is he unable to put together a paragraph? Does he develop great ideas and designs, but then just doesn't tell them?

 

[zoparrat]

271828: I work at a VERY international firm. Around half of our engineers and a good percentage of our projects are international. While there are a few poor communicators among the native English speakers, the majority of communication problems stem from having English as a second language.

I know first hand from discussing (or trying to) field conditions over the phone with contractors, fabricators etc. Describing how something needs to be built over the phone is 100X tougher than preparing a drawing set and writing specs. This is one type of communication that is especially difficult for non-native speakers, although I've seen a good number of native speakers who are terrible at it. Written communication is in general comes much easier for everyone.

 

[271828]

No question about EFL folks. It's amazing to me to work with one of these guys on a difficult engineering problem and humbling to realize that a good chunk of his mental horsepower is going toward language.

How about people who are speaking English as their native language? I know people who could probably never write a jnl manuscript, but a memo?! A letter or ten page report?! I guess they're out there, but I don't know any of them.

 

[271828]

LOL, meant ESL. Is there a way to edit a post? I've wanted to do this lots of times, but don't see an edit button.