Sites of Structural Engineering Service?

[staadproman]

Hello to all,
Does anyone know a good place (website,forum,blog etc.),where is possible to post a classified ads in area of Structural Engineering Design Services, and Finite Element Analysis (FEA).
Thanks in advance.

 

[oldestguy]

If you want to avoid following ethical practices that professional engineers try to follow, in spite of competition problems, you might follow the unethical practices of attorneys and post big full page ads in the yellow pages. There are less obnoxious ways, such as placing a small ad in the rear of professional business magazines showing your availability. Stop in and visit the architects and developers in your area to make it known that you are in business. It takes work to get a business going.

 

[oldestguy]

Take an example from my most successful boss. I addition to visiting possible clients, he was a "joiner". He hob-knobbed with professionals that might send work his way. He was active in his church council, joined and volunteered in Rotary International, local Chamber of Commerce, local and national professional engineering societies, Boy Scouts, blood donation drives, etc. This way he met many people that knew of his "go get-em " attitude and he prospered.

In many other cases, the successful self employed engineers first worked for companies where they met the clients and developed reputations "out there". Once on their own, many a job came their way because of past contacts. I can say that my success was mainly by that route. I never advertised or sent out brochures. Early on I did a seminar for many that I had contact with in the early stages of computer use and that also helped. Giving programs in professional groups as to jobs of local interest also may have helped. Word of Mouth from happy clients is hard to evaluate, but it can't hurt.

 

[Ron]

Many years ago the Supreme Court of the United States struck down a provision of the engineering code of ethics that prevented bidding and advertising. That was a legal decision, not an ethical decision. Personally, I think that was wrong. As a result, I have neither advertised for services nor have I bid on projects. I think engineers should be above that practice. I believe OldestGuy is of a similar thought.

If you are good at what you do, you will have plenty of work. If you have to resort to bidding and publicly espousing your qualifications, you have a problem.

As oldestguy stated, get out and let the other professionals know what you can do. We are not mechanics...we are not paraprofessionals...we are professional engineers. State who you are, what you do and let them know your qualifications. If it goes beyond that...you shouldn't want the job.

 

[JAE]

Well you certainly shouldn't solicit here at Eng-Tips (like you did in two different forums).

 

[strucguy]

Oldestguy and Ron...Please educate me here. What's unethical about spreading the word about various services you have to offer and the various qualifications you have? Also, how does it matter whether you do it in person or through a classified ad.

 

[Ron]

strucguy...Until the Supreme Court struck it down, the Code of Ethics of engineers prevented advertising. The belief was that engineers were licensed professionals and should not resort to the practices of the used car salesmen and others selling "stuff". Engineering services are not "stuff". They are learned, judgment-driven services that should be selected on qualification, not the most glitzy presentation. There is nothing judgment driven about selling stuff...it is money driven. Engineering services should never be only about money. Yes, profit is important and you cannot sustain a business without it; however, when profit is the motive for making engineering decisions, it does not serve the basic premise of the engineer's requirement to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public.

There is nothing wrong with touting your qualifications; however, to do so in an unsolicited, uncontrolled manner is not in the best interest of the image of our profession. There has been a decline of the image of professional engineers for many years...much of which has been caused by bidding, blatant overstatement of qualifications and other non-professional activities that engineers have resorted to for the sake of profit.

If you want to be a salesman...talk about it. If you want to be an engineer...show it.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I think this can be taken too far. What if no one knows my name because I've been riding a desk for some company who keeps me in a black hole? What if I just moved across country? I can come up with numerous other reasons why my name wouldn't be known, and in all of them I would want to advertise my services. Being so strict about it as to say "no print advertisements" and the like is just silliness.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[strucguy]

No offense...but if it wasn't for the Supreme Court's order we would have been a lazy bunch. Preventing advertising irrespective of the industry is against free market principles. It will only breed inefficiency and arrogance. I second MacGyverS2000's opinion. There's nothing unethical about advertising about ones' capabilities and qualifications, be it on Structure magazine or Craigslist. Putting yourself out there on Craigslist or as a matter of fact yellowpages doesn't make you any less professional. If I am able to deliver what the client wants in lesser time and for lesser fee...that's a good thing for the profession. I am helping raise the bar for all the engineering. Well, if I am cutting corners to deliver services at a cheaper rate...well that is a problem and that is where the building officials and peer reviews come into picture. Sooner of later my clients would know my misdeeds and stop working with me.

 

[oldestguy]

As to advertising engineering services, I used to work in the Madison, WI area and remember two or three firms that would advertise a lot with blocked off sections for them in Yellow pages. None of them were active (or maybe members) in the local, state or national engineering societies, to which most prospering firms (engineers) joined. Today I looked at the Madison area Yellow pages for various engineering services. I see there very many firms that I used to know quite well. Is it not interesting that those former firms that used to advertise and were not active in their branches are not listed at all? In fact, none of the current engineering listings are using special ads at all. All are lower case type, except for three with names in caps. That may say something about advertising, or the success of the firms maybe. Or, the success from paying for advertising.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You said the firms who advertised previously were not members of the local societies... perhaps their failure was due to that rather than the use of advertisements? Without any data, it's a complete guess on anyone's part as to why they failed. Trying to make a link to their failure and their earlier use of ads would be highly suspect, at best.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[PEDARRIN2]

How you get a job/project is not an engineering decision - it is a business/marketing decision.

What you do once you get the job/project is where the engineering decisions manifest.

If the engineer is unemployed, he markets himself to as many areas as he can - it is called networking. If he gets an interview for a job because his barber has a sister whose cousin is the head of engineering at a company - how is that different than if he is a friend of the head of the local engineer's association.

He will get the job based upon his engineering ability and experience.

I think to look down on engineers who advertise is possibly another example of the thinking of "that's just not how it should be done" or "that's not how we did it in the past".

 

[SomptingGuy]

Are we perhaps mixing different flavours of engineering here? Some engineers work to make "stuff" sell better than alternative "stuff" from other suppliers. We don't all build bridges.

- Steve

 

[GerryBertier]

I find this thread interesting.

As currently part of a design firm, of which, I have very little contact with the actual client, my future plans of going out on my own are always in my mind developing. My current situation involves clients which are looking for a complete architectural, MEPS and civil engineering fee package. While its great impressing my in house project architects and contractors, I'm not developing much in future work relationships.

If we aren't suppose to "steal clients" from our previous employers, and also shouldn't be "advertising" our services, I'd be curious as to how I go about obtaining future work.

 

[NorthCivil]

GerryBertier, Staadproman,

I knew a guy in school, a journeymen plumber; he became a mechanical. Though we graduated in a bit of an economic slump, we were all grinding for a job, he was picking and choosing, and scored a (relatively) high salary to boot.

As we were getting our P.eng's, he hung his own shingle right away, and it seems he came into quick success. He had that deep hands-on background in plumbing, J-man credentials, along with tons of contacts in the industry even before he started engineering. It's not hard for him to get the first job with a client, and once he has it, clients don't want to go anywhere else. He knows how to work with contractors, talk their language, when to be the bad guy and when to let things slide. It doesn't hurt either that the guy is about as personable as they come.

Some other guys I know, who have done nothing but worked in engineering offices, out there, hanging there own shingle, tell me its a real grind. If there is nothing special about you, and you don't even have grey hair to show, there is only category you can compete in: price. From what I've heard, that market is a race to the bottom.

The point of my story is that unless you have a real niche field to exploit, you're just another engineer in the yellow pages. Find your niche and you'll be turning away work.