Small company or large or career change 1

[shacked]

I graduated 2 years ago with a civil degree and since then I have been practicing structural. Currently I work at a small structural firm, with 1 PE/owner, me(EIT) and another guy who has taken his EIT 2 times failed both and it does not look like he is studying for it. The work environment is a little tense.

He continually pushes to get jobs out, his most popular phrase being, "just get it out this project has lingered too long." Basically I am feeling that either I may have choosen the wrong career, or I need to change employers.

My question is related to the company size. What have been your experiences with larger companies versus small(2-6) person company?

 

[JAE]

Not either/or....there are also mid sized companies from 15 people to 100 that I think may sometimes offer the best experience for new engineers.

That may be what you are looking for.

 

[Lion06]

I work at a mid-size company (around 55 engineers and material scientists in 3 offices) and I love it. There are always deadlines, but that comes with the territory. Just based on what I've heard from people, mid-size can really be the way to go. A small company tends to get smaller jobs (not that there's anything wrong with that), and a big company has so many departments you get sort of pigeonholed into one part of a project. I am sure some people will correct me if I am mis-speaking.
In about 16 months on the job I have designed lateral systems, large combined footings, WT reinforcing for existing WF beams for change of use, retaining walls, masonry and concrete shearwalls, wood diaphragm and shearwall design - just to name a few of the design things I've been nexposed to. I've also done tons of detailing and gone on countless site visits. I don't think I would have been exposed to such a wide variety of things at a larger company and would have probably been exposed to a lot more things that are of no interest to me at a smaller company.

 

[gwynn]

I think you need to be a little more specific in what you are looking for and what the work environment is where you are working. I work in a small structural firm (~15 employees) and enjoy working there.

Comparing my experience to those I know who have gone to work for larger firms, there are a few major differences. It should be noted though that I work for a firm which does a lot of construction engineering, which accounts for some of the differences. Roughly half my time is design and the other half construction engineering.

I have a much greater variety of projects than they do. Not sure how it is where you are, but here there are experience requirements based on what work you have done in your four years of EIT. Many of the larger firms seem to have a program in place which gets EITs the bare minimum of required experience in the four years. This means six months of designing bearing walls, followed by six months of simple span beams, followed by six months of one way slabs, etc. I hit all the requirements in less than six months and routinely deal with far more complex and interesting situations. Instead of designing the simple span beams for part of a structure, I design the whole thing. Not sure about you, but six months of simple span beams would mean switching jobs for me.

I have much more responsibility than they do. I manage many of my own projects and have the authority to agree to take on some projects. While still an EIT I am building my own client base, that is people who will call me up with a project rather than have it bid or ask the firm to do it.

I do deal with more intense deadlines than they do. This is in large part to the construction side of things though. Sometimes the contractor/project manager doesn't realise they need something designed until they need it, or that they need it designed until after it's built.

I prefer wher I am to the situation of being an EIT for a big firm, but there are those I know who look at it the other way.

 

[MikeHalloran]

My experience has been that I get thrown out of both large and small companies just when I get comfortable... so my advice is don't get comfortable. You seem to have that covered.

Mr. NotYetAnEIT may or may not be feeling stressed about the EIT, but clearly is feeling stressed because there's no 'cushion' in a small company. If the work doesn't 'go out', and keep going out, there will shortly be no work, and no paycheck.

In a large company, there can exist local pockets that may be temporarily unprofitable. There are even good reasons for running substantial operations at a loss indefinitely. Small businesses don't have the luxury of multiple streams of income that only have to be profitable in the aggregate.

Small businesses also lack places to hide. In a big company, if you've annoyed The Boss, e.g. by failing to do something, you can find other things to do for a while and hope the storm blows over. In a small company, you remain visible, and may be able to offset disappointing said Boss by doing something positive, e.g. putting money is his pocket.

You appear to not be in any particular trouble right now, except to the extent that a tight cash flow may affect you. You are in a position to affect that, more than in a big company, by working as efficiently as you can, finding ways to improve your own productivity, continuing to do so, etc.

You are also in a position to benefit by observing the ongoing interaction between The Boss and Mr. NotYetAnEIT.

You may someday be The Boss, and you can learn from the current Boss' example, whether you consider it good or bad.

Similarly, you may someday screw up in a really big way, and what you can remember of Mr. NotYetAnEIT's tap dancing may then serve you well. Watch and learn.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[shacked]

Thanks guys. I should clarify my position.

We do a lot of residential, mostly remodels and very very few commercial projects. I design all aspects of the structure as well as do all or most of the drafting. My major gripe is the work load and expectation to get all of it out as fast as possible with minimal errors. I realize that this is the name of the game, but juggling up to 6 jobs and expecting to get them out fast is very stressfull. Not to mention the fact that anything I do will be wrong or not just to my bosses (PE's) liking.

With only being 2 years out of school I realize that I have a lot to learn, but it gets discouraging when everytime I complete a project and turn it in to him I just wait for all the negative comments and bad attitude he gets. Then I hear him say, Man we just don't have the budget for this. This should have been out weeks ago."

Also benifits are not that good. No PTO, except for 2 holidays, the medical insurance is terrible, so I just stay with my VA benefits which are OK and not to mention to overtime pay. Being payed by the hour is fine but a lot of the time I am feeling pressured to work over 40 hours without pay or overtime. I think the reason for this is because MR can't pass the EIT suck-up stays overtime a lot and he does not get paid for it. I asked the boss about it and he tells me that the other guy is enrolled in profit sharing so that is why he stays, to get jobs out.

I hope this clarifies things.

 

[epoisses]

Well - if you think you can get much better benefits elsewhere, give it a try. But don't expect any small company, or micro company in your case, to be stress-free and not cash flow restricted. If you want to trade more cushion and more opportunities to learn from more experienced collegues for more bureaucracy and less responsibility, look for a larger company.

 

[kelowna]

My thoughts:
I do not think it is a question of large or small companies, but of good or bad. Yours seems to be bad.
If you are not happy leave. There is not such a thing as working in a bad job to have a good carreer. There are no carreers, just jobs, hopefully good jobs, that when you look back 'kind of' form a carreer.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Ah. Maybe you do have a problem. In many outfits, having fewer than six projects on your plate would be unusual.


Keep a diary. Date and record everything the boss says to you, including especially the criticisms.

If you get yelled at for the same thing twice, you are not learning. Some people teach only by yelling, but please understand that if you are doing it wrong, even a nice guy is obligated to tell you about it.

Make a checklist of all the things you've already been yelled at for, and check your work against it.

If you're on the clock, don't work OT for free, but don't be perceived as a clock- watcher, either.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[vc66]

I agree with kelowna. It seems that you're in a situation where you're just unhappy. As this is your first (one of your first) job(s) I would suggest taking it day by day, and learning what you can. I was in a similar situation with my last company. When I started to get frustrated, I made myself write down all of the criticisms that the boss would throw at me, and then I would try to look at them from his point of view. With his POV in mind, I learned that a lot of his criticisms were hypocrisy, and he just didn't like me. I'm not insinuating that this is your situation, but whatever the case may be, you will find this exercise valuable.

Good Luck!

Mechanical Engineer/Consultant
Medical Devices
"When I am working on a problem, I do not think of beauty, but when I've finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."

- R. Buckminster Fuller

 

[EddyC]

I worked for a large ENR 100 rated firm that operated exactly as your small firm. I've found that it doesn't matter the size of the company. What matters is if they have a proper work ethic toward their employees and their customers.

 

[IRstuff]

OK, seems to me that there are a multitude of issues:

> Unclear expectations. When you are assigned a task, you need to get, in writing, the deadline and the budget. Even if all you do is get a verbal, write it into a notebook specifically for this purpose. When you get pummelled, pull out the notebook and show him the requirements.

> Likewise, when you are given additional assignments that conflict in timing or resources, pull out your notebook and ask him which other project he wants to delay and note an schedule slips granted.

> Your manager is an ass, but get over it, assess are everywhere. Big or small, tyrants both petty and grand, existing in all companies, big or small. Eventually, if you maintain a disciplined and detailed documentation of scheduled jobs and priorities, he'll hopefully get the message.

> Notate actual completion dates in your notebook. This will be your ammo when review time comes along and the ass complains about your schedule slips. Pull out your notebook and ask him which projects he's referring to.

> Note that this practice needs to be done, regardless of the size of the company. The only constant is that you will always be working for a specific manager in any size company.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[AlmostPE]

It sounds like my company except my company has good benefits. It sounds like you need to learn as much as you can and just find another firm. You will get hired easily if you stay on residential. Or maybe do more commercial projects.

 

[AlmostPE]

Oh also, I bet my money there are a lot of members here that can pass the PE no problem but will have problem with EIT because they have been out of school too long.