SMARTEAM to PDMWE...

[kcarpenter]

I'd like to get some feedback from those few individuals who transitioned from SMARTEAM over to PDMW Enterprise. I'm looking for general likes/dis-likes, data migration, setup and maintenance. Comparative info regarding ST vs. PDMWE, scalability of PDMWE. I'll be getting the canned demo in a couple weeks but I wanted to hear from those that have made the transition. I know there are a few of you out there, so your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
KC

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[Standing]

Kevin,
We went from SmarTeam to PDM/Works (I know it is not the same). It did take time. We had to open every file and check it in. This kept the links between drawing and model. In the end we did not have enough man power, so we just dumped the files into PDM Vault in a folder called SmarTeam. Now as we touch the files we update them to link the model and drawing together.

Bradley
SolidWorks Premim 2007 x64 SP4.0
PDM Works, Dell XPS Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU
3.00 GHz, 5 GB RAM, Virtual memory 12577 MB, nVidia 3400

 

[macduff]

Kevin,
Why are you jumpimg over to PDMWorks Enterprise? Having problems with Smarteam? Just curious.....

Best,

Macduff
Colin Fitzpatrick
Mechanical Design Engineer
Solidworks 2007 SP 4.0
Dell 390 XP Pro SP 2
Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB

 

[kcarpenter]

Colin,
We're not jumping ship just yet. I'm curious to hear others feedback on the subject. We're one of the oldest ST account in the US, we've been using it since version 2.13 way back in 1997. There are several problems, one being the financial cost of the maintenance. 30-33% of the product/module cost for maintenance is excessive to say the least. I was able to get SW to discount our maintenance to only 20% of product cost. All I can tell you is our maintenance fees for ST alone are very close to 6 digits. Another issue is the lack of direct support for those fees. We have to pay for consulting to get support and if they can't solve it then we get to make the call to ST. I'd like to think that for getting 6 digits of my companies money if I have a problem I can speak to someone to fix it...today. The some how disconnected CAD/PLM version updating is another cause for heartburn. Look SW2008 is out, oh but wait we can't install it until ST releases a SP to support it. But only a SP for their LATEST RELEASE OF ST. Database changes are somewhat substantial at times and could cause some real nightmares during an upgrade if not tested before hand. Now throw in MUS replication, regulatory compliancy, etc. and you need to be trained by ST Dassault just think about attempting an upgrade. I could go on and on but I think it's time to step off the soap box for now.

Are you currently using ST Colin? If so what version are you running?

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[macduff]

Kevin,
I thought this was going to be your response. I've heard it all before, just want to hear your side. When I was in sunny So Cal working for a company, we were using PDMworks and our sister company wanted us to move to ST. We fought it tooth and nail and won. One main reasons is what you stated about support, costs and common verison releases. Good luck my friend in you feedback.

P.S. This whole Dassualt is weird with SW, CATIA and Smarteam. I wish SW was by themselves again. You would think the software would play well with each other and run seemlessly.

Kind Regards,

Macduff
Colin Fitzpatrick
Mechanical Design Engineer
Solidworks 2007 SP 4.0
Dell 390 XP Pro SP 2
Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB

 

[ctopher]

Colin,
I heard last week they are making the move to Smarteam now. (that company here in So Cal.)

Chris
SolidWorks 07 4.0/PDMWorks 07
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 04-21-07)

 

[macduff]

I knew it wouldn't be long.

Macduff
Colin Fitzpatrick
Mechanical Design Engineer
Solidworks 2007 SP 4.0
Dell 390 XP Pro SP 2
Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB

 

[kcarpenter]

Colin,
Don't get me wrong. I think the product has a definite place here where I work. I'm finding it harder to justify the costs. I just don't see where they're getting their enhancement requests from. Some of the things I've seen them implement over the years has made me scratch my head for hours. Here's a stupid one for you...most ERP systems will allow you to obsolete parts based on EOL and/or reduced usage. But if some new design can utilize that part you can reinstate it. ST out of the box will not allow you to next revision any object that has been obsolete/frozen.

Weird doesn't even explain some of what I heard yesterday. The recent purchase of Matrix One is now being mixed in with the ENOVIA suite for their BOM management, some previous work to create a browser based CAD integration/interface will most likely be written off and killed. The knowledge of many NAV product users screaming about the Cimmetry viewer being a piece of crap FOR YEARS and nothing being done. They need better integration within SW, put the stuff in the integration that you'd normally be forced to open the full EDR interface for. Upgrading a MUS (Multi-site) installation is a very tricky task and our DB is again very old. Thusly, this seemingly simple thing of an upgrade turns into a total cluster f*&^.

V18 looks to be a step in the right direction. More attention needs to paid to the administrative side of the product and they're doing some of that. Interface overhaul was done to EDR, WEB, and CMT (which might be going away), new licensing bundling, 3DLive looks cool (but we'd never use it here).

My biggest drawback with a move to PDMWE is it doesn't look scalable or robust enough to handle what we'd like it to do in the future.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[macduff]

Kevin,
Very interesting comments you made. You made a comment about PDMWE is not as robust as Smarteam. PDMWE is still relativity new (few years?) and believe would grow as scalable product down the road, no? My take that it a PLM product just like Smarteam. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Macduff
Colin Fitzpatrick
Mechanical Design Engineer
Solidworks 2007 SP 4.0
Dell 390 XP Pro SP 2
Intel 2 Duo Core, 2GB RAM
nVida Quadro FX 3450 512 MB

 

[kcarpenter]

Colin,
While I did make a comment, I would never say it is "not" as robust. Again I would still like to have a closer look at it and will probably do so via the canned demo from the VAR. Not having any first hand use of it I merely said "doesn't look" as scalable/robust. I'm not too keen on the vault directory structure, again only seeing the online demo's it looks like the vault structure could get quite messy. In ST there's only three vault folders, Released, Checked-In, and Obsolete. Everything falls into one of those three, and the information pertaining to the project, ECR/ECN, etc. is nothing more than meta-data in the DB. Now I could be way off with regard to PDMWE vaulting methodology, but that's how I saw it. I don't know PDMWE installs that have over GB or 263,000+ objects (SW, DOC, XL, PD, DEG, etc).

I do agree that it is a PLM product not just PDM, but not on the same level. Would you consider Windchill as a comparable to PDMWE? I would say not even close. But you understand what I'm getting at. I appreciate your response/opinion as I do every user of this form.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[engAlright]

We use PDMWE and I would not classify it as a PLM solution. It is first and foremost a document management system, and it does that very well. It runs on an "open" SQL db so there are opportunities to extract things like Description or Material properties and use them elsewhere. It does workflow as well, but I would say that's where it's "PLM" functionality stops.

We went with PDMWE because we wanted a better system to manage SolidWorks documents across multiple sites. It didn't make sense for us to spend the extra $$$ for SmartTeam when we would have been paying for tons of functionality we didn't need.

 

[kcarpenter]

We're planning on using workflow pretty heavily in the near future. I will certainly have to take this into consideration. We're also in a bit of unique situation as we're a medical device manufacturer and must comply with government regulations; which is part of the reason we've stuck with ST.

Thanks for your input engAlright.

Kevin Carpenter
CAD Systems Administrator
Invacare Corp.

 

[pdminfo]

Hello Kevin,
Just noticed this thread with interest. PDMWE is not a PLM solution in the typical sense that others promote themselves (ST, Windchill, TeamCtr, Etc). However it does include capability beyond SolidWorks PDM. Also, while ST is a very capable system it does require a very capable investment to own & maintain (I realize you already know this). Yes, release synchronization with SolidWorks can be a challenge at times.

To clarify another reply to this thread, PDMWE may be new to the SolidWorks family (May 2006) however it is not a new born. As Conisio it started life in the late 90's and until May 2006 was marketed in N.A. under that name.

Not sure where you are in your PDM assesment at Invacare but have you seen the latest PDMWE 2008 release from your SolidWorks VAR? Ths may address some of the scalability questions raised as well.

Good luck!