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So...what is an HVAC job like? 2

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CheckThePlug

Mechanical
Feb 1, 2011
32
OK, to start, I'm living in New York City for a number of reasons and I have no intention of moving.

My past experience is in heavy industry engineering (oilfield equipment) and I really want to get involved at a product design consultancy as a design engineer. The only problem is that it seems most design engineers have years of experience and/or a masters in industrial design. I've applied to an industrial design masters program, but I'm not certain spending 2 years and thousands of dollars will necessarily get me a job at one of these firms.

Alternatively, I would gladly take a job in something similar to my past experience like manufacturing or other mechanical design, but those types of jobs seem fairly uncommon until you get out to remote parts of Jersey, Long Island, upstate New York, or Connecticut, and I'd rather move to another city than live in the suburbs.

So, seeing as there are literally boatloads of HVAC, plumbing design, and other building-related mechanical engineering jobs in the city, I would like to hear from someone what day-to-day life is like for an HVAC or plumbing design engineer. I would prefer a desk job rather than a field engineer going to job sites, etc. My only concern is that my thermo/fluids skills are much weaker than my machine design skills and without really knowing what an HVAC job entails I'm not sure if I would be very good at it.

The other question is whether or not I can transition from an HVAC job back into manufacturing/product design once I get more experience and build my list of contacts in the industry. I mean, HVAC seems really boring, but maybe it's not so different from other machine design jobs and there's more to it than I think.

So, what career path should I take:

#1 follow my dreams, get a masters in industrial design and hope the economy improves enough to get in at a firm via internship

#2 find a pedestrian job to have some sort of income in the meantime and wait for something more similar to my past experience to show up

#3 start applying to HVAC because it's not actually as difficult or monotonous as it seems.

I know some of you might not understand my desire to stay in New York, and I'm not asking you to, but suggestions of moving somewhere else are not useful to me as if I were to become desperate I have connections that could get me employed in Houston. In case anyone is wondering, no, it's not over a girl or something ridiculous like that.
 
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Have you tried talking to a recruiter in your area? They may have more insight of the areas mentioned.
To limit yourself to only NYC, you limit your job prospects.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
 
I'm well aware I'm limiting myself, but if I had to leave New York, I'd just as soon work in Houston, so the idea is "how do I stay in New York City".

Do recruiters honestly even care about new grads, especially in this economy? Are there actual brick and mortar recruiters that I can meet with or strictly the online sources I've been using?

I feel like a big problem is that prospective employers can't put a face to the resume and if they met me in person they would see I'm sharp, competent, and fun to be around and would gladly hire me, but engineers go to work in their watchtowers and there isn't any entry level position to meet them through like, say, fashion design where people work retail for the company they want to design for until they meet people at a company party, etc.

So, I guess an additional question is: how do I network with engineers in a meaningful way so they actually become interested in getting me employed at their company.
 
As someone who has been a design engineer for most of my career I'm not sure why you think you need an Industrial Design degree. Are you looking to be an actual design engineer or do you want to use more artistic skills?

Product design engineering is turning someone's concept or idea into a manufacturable product. Industrial design is coming up with that idea or concept. Which would you prefer doing?
 
designing what, though?

The firms I'm talking about are firms like Smart, Frog, and other product design consultancies like that. The Master's was actually suggested by an engineer I talked to (the one engineering contact I have so far) and suggested I get a master's in industrial design to show I'm dedicated to that type of work and not just some random engineer applying to a job because it said "engineer" in the title. It's not so much that I would need the degree outright, but given the highly competitive market I feel like they would prefer to hire someone with a dual background for a staff position and would make me a prime candidate for an executive position later on.

Honestly, I'd really like to take part in both stages of product design, coming up with the basic functional idea as well as making it produceable, but I'm not sure if a combined position actually exists outside of exceedingly small firms.

If a master's in industrial design wouldn't help me get employed as a design engineer, what else could I do to make myself more appealing? A master's in engineering seems like it only helps if you're looking for a research-related job or something like Boeing/NASA where it's highly experimental and meticulous engineering.

Maybe I'm just over thinking this and the only reason I'm not getting hired is just due to the horrendous economy and overall lack of jobs, thus me be ousted out by people with better contacts and more experience. Honestly, I'm just ready to work a real job and not be dependent on my parents or anyone else for once in my life and to graduate when the economy is the worst it's been in like 30 years, for lack of a better phrase, not good.
 
Just bear in mind that job searching is a marketing exercise, i.e., you are marketing YOU as a product. To that end then, what your resume and cover letter has everything to do with whether someone will consider you for a job, and it's not necessarily just a statement of facts and figures about you and your college coursework, but, rather, how you and your associated coursework can solve your prospective employer's problems.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize
 
well, I do have a year and a half of real world experience, I'm not just some kid with a college degree shouting "look, I know everything!", I actually have real projects I've worked on to back it up (not that I know everything, but rather that I'm not another know-nothing fresh college grad).

I know I'm marketing myself, and considering that I have a minor in English (I may not show it on these posts, but I'm not writing formally on here) I am well adept at using the exact connotations and emphasis to push my strongest traits, etc. I mean, I can only emphasize one job so much, it's still not going to stand well against someone with similar experience and a contact, someone with more experience, or someone that went to a more familiar university (I went to college in Louisiana, so it's understandable no one in New York knows anything about it).

I mean, I try to emphasize that I've dealt with X, Y, and Z (whatever may be listed in the job posting), but it's sometimes hard to really claim I'm everything they want when the company is called "the client" on the job site or craigslist posting and I can't research the company. I can say I know Solidworks and GibbsCAM, etc. all day,but how can I really prove I know it better than someone with similar years of experience? The other problem is that I feel that if I make myself look too good, they'll think I'm just lying and padding my resume with bull and get the impression that I've just used these programs or worked with certain processes once in a glancing introduction and haven't really dealt with them.

This, of course, is even assuming my resume gets read amongst the dozens or hundreds of job applications they might get for a particular job to the point they might not even give me an honest look.

At the very least, what do employers prefer: resume and cover letter combined into a PDF or cover letter in the e-mail and resume as an attachment? I usually combine the two and make a brief e-mail saying I'm very interested and explain my attachments (I also include a work portfolio when appropriate).
 
To be honest with you, per your writing it seems to me you are not 100% sure what you want to do.
Im not attacking you, but having a minor in English should come natural for you to create a clearer understanding in your post what you want.
My suggestion is to find a local company that does work that you think you want and ask for a tour, some companies will be happy to.
Also talk to the school you attended for suggestions.
It can't hurt to pick the brains of recruiters.
Check out Linkedin.com

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
 
I have a fair amount of experience working with industrial design firms and they do many things depending on the contract. They could do some market research, design multiple product concepts, or they could provide a client with the entire product development chain all the way through to finding a factory and having the product made.

An industrial designer is just one piece of their company. The engineers that they employ are used for the practical aspects of product development like manufacturability and understanding the technical aspects of how products work.

If you are looking at both product aesthetic design and making something produceable, there are probably more opportunities in the latter. Just about any company that makes a product needs an engineer who understands product functions as well as manufacturing processes. The options for freeform product design are more for the industrial designers and those with more creative skills. That may or may not be you.

From your posts you say that you have experience engineering oilfield equipment, you want to design new consumer products, and you are willing to temporarily work in HVAC. I think you're a little scattered and should focus on what you really want to do.

If you really want to do product design engineering for an ID firm I don't know if a Masters will really help you. You would probably be better off getting a job that allows you engineer new products for a widget manufacturer. There, you can gain experience, learn about different manufacturing processes, and understand how products go from an idea to being mass produced.

I certainly understand your frustration in gaining employment as I just ended a 14 month stint of being unemployed. But you have to look at what you have to offer a company. While it could happen I don't see an ID firm hiring an engineer with no product design experience. Get some experience in that field first and then knock on their doors. Provided, of course, that that's where you really want to work.
 
To be honest, I'm just kind of entering panic mode because this is the longest I've ever been unemployed since my first job. In fact, I've never been unemployed since I was 18 and I'm now 25. Furthermore, every job I've ever had has been through a contact and my resume was mostly a formality rather than a necessity. Don't get me wrong here, I'm well versed in what a resume and cover letter should look like and contain, but it's the fact that I've never had to seek out a job before and certainly not in this economy that it's hard to tell if I'm doing something wrong or it's just raw bad economic timing.

After further research, I'm staying far away from HVAC for sure. I was reading what some engineers were saying and basically people that barely have technical degrees try to portray themselves as engineers and companies underbid each other into minimal profits.

I think, at least for now, my plan of action is to try to keep applying to somewhat related companies (broadened out to any type of manufacturing and product development) and perhaps go to a semester of a master's program to make contacts in the industrial design field as well as meet staff and professors that may be able to help guide me or recommend me for future positions since many design firm employees seem to come from the school I've applied to.

So, while I wait to finally land that great manufacturing/product engineering job, any suggestions on a good job to apply to in the meantime to bring in a little income? I applied to the Apple store for either a Genius Bar or Specialist job since I have lots of computer experience as well as previous electronic repair experience, but it does entail flying to Cupertino, California and a couple weeks of training, so I don't know if I'll get tagged with an "overqualified" designation. I'd like to do something more significant than waiting tables or unrelated retail so at least it might make a good addition to my resume.
 
Gee, I just cannot pass this on up.

You will find that these jobs run "Hot & Cold".
 
Like any field, there are a few gifted professionals in a sea of hacks. It's humble but important work, far from glamorous, but that does not excuse poor craftsmanship in the design process.

I used to work as a balancer, so I could see the fruits of the engineers' work as I worked to bring the systems operational within specs. Shortcuts that look like "just a little cheating" on paper result in systems that can not deliver required heat and cooling, and are incapable of adjusting to any future changes, either by design or by Father Time.
 
Tick,

Very deep and eloquent post -- I plan on quoting you to the staff around here in my next adventure at training. Thanks!

CheckThePlug -- good luck to you!!

Good on y'all,

Goober Dave
 
Are there any engineering associations in your local area you could go to meetings of?

Maybe friends of friends?

Maybe your mom or girlfriends nail lady also does the nails for someone at a company you'd like to work for or something.

Anything to be giving your resume to a real person rather than just a website, front desk person, or rep at a job fair.

I got my current job from having my resume on Monster or one of those, and my last interview was from applying online, however, these seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

There have been lots of 'job seeking' related threads on here, so I'd look through them and try to pick up any general trends etc. Just because the situation isn't exactly the same doesn't mean the suggestions aren't partially relevant.

Good luck.

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
Plug,

This is my first post here, but your topic resonated with me as I'm facing a similar issue. I did what you are thinking about, getting dual bachelors degrees in ME and ID at my university. First, I'll say that I found my educational experience extraordinarily valuable and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Realize that employers may not feel the same way. At the end of the day it depends on your experience level and your skills more than anything else.

I've managed to draw interest from some pretty reputable places but was always beaten out by someone else with years of work experience in the field. Apparently, with dual degrees, I'm more likely to ask for a higher salary, and then leave when I get enough experience to be "dangerous." I wish I was making that up, but I've more or less been told that in various forms a few times now. The tough thing to handle is that there are a lot of talented people WITH design experience who can't find work. Another degree may just end up plunging you further into debt with a marginal change in your employment prospects. Do you really want to be an ID or a design engineer?

ID is a field that can be lucrative for a select few, but I estimate that 70% of ID grads will have fallen by the wayside five or fewer years after graduation. The sad fact is that ID is undervalued and misunderstood by many. The jobs are few, the starting salaries are low (compared to eng.) and the hours are long. Long term career prospects can be tenuous at best. How many designer CEO's do you see out there? Add in a massive oversupply of young designers, many of whom are dealing with those big student loan payments, and its pretty disastrous right now. I know a talented ID with great internship experience and all kinds of awards and honors that is still INTERNING almost two years after graduating. I will say that I know some other ME/ID people who have done extraordinarily well though, the terrible economy not withstanding. A lot of ID masters programs are more theory/research focused, and may not do the best job of preparing you for an entry level ID gig where skills (sketching) is still king.

I would echo HPRifleman's advice above. Figure out where you want to be, then figure out how to get there. Don't fall for the education trap unless you can get someone else to foot the bill. Two or more years of graduate ID education will not come cheap. Get nasty with Pro/E and Solidworks (far cheaper than a university education) to start off. My Pro/E experience has managed to land me some entry level ME interviews over other candidates who didn't know the software as well.

If I were you, I'd stay an engineer because engineers are awesome. Some people on this forum lament the state of the engineering profession, but I truly believe that ID is worse. At least you'll make a few bucks as an engineer before you get outsourced. Also in the future, find a job first and THEN quit your great paying O&G gig before you pick up and move to an expensive place like NYC. Best of luck to you.
 
@designosaur Pretty relevant post

#1 yeah, I was really starting to doubt that a MID would help me much compared to the cost and the time required to get it. That's why I'm thinking of just taking one semester and trying to get them to let me take the Solidworks/Pro E class my first semester rather than later on in the curriculum since that would be relevant to engineering as well . I'm very proficient in Solidworks, but I've never used Pro E, are they very different? is a cheap gimped version available? One way or another I'll have to come across a copy.

In addition to taking some engineering-related ID courses that might help me, the school I applied to is very well known amongst industrial design-related companies and would open a lot of doors from the name alone, even if I didn't actually get a full degree. Furthermore, I would meet some very dedicated and competent industrial designers that might be able to get me in the door as an engineer later on if they wind up at a company I want to work for. Also, my parents have offered to foot the bill, so finances aren't the issue. Lastly, since I wouldn't be getting the full degree, I wouldn't be likely to get tagged with an "overqualified" designation everywhere and could add or remove the graduate credit from my resume depending on the job I apply to (design related or not).

#2 I DEFINITELY want to stay an engineer. I would prefer a combined role, but I much prefer modeling in Solidworks, designing mechanisms, running FEA, and that type of stuff over having to hand sketch "the new hotness" and compete against boatloads of art students that took a wrong turn at Albuquerque and flood the inbox of every ID job posting.

#3 I didn't have a great paying O&G job. While I was doing the work of a full engineer (not just shredding papers or turning wrenches or something), I was only getting $11 an hour since I was technically a paid intern. My boss told me straight up before I graduated that he couldn't afford to pay me a full salary because he simply wasn't getting enough business to offset the cost. I mean, it was a company of 9 people in a limping economy, it's understandable that he couldn't afford another full salaried engineer. Additionally, I had a free apartment in New York to stay in thanks to a rich family friend and still do for at least another 6 months, so I had every reason to move to NYC as soon as possible and start trying to get the ball rolling since after much consideration I have decided that it is exactly where I want to live.

 
You can get a cheap version of Pro/E if you're a student. I think its less than a 100 bucks. You earned an engineering degree, so I think learning a CAD program will be pretty straightforward for you. Pro/E and SW are both parametric modelers and are similar in a lot of ways. Pro/E's analysis and surfacing tools are more robust in my limited experience, but I always found the surfacing to be more intuitive in SW. Industry uses both it seems, just pick one and get really good at it.

Go here:
I would just buy these books. Save your folks some money. And hand sketching "the hotness" is one of my favorite parts of the design process, believe it or not. Getting an ID job from an online posting is really difficult. I feel for all the kids that don't have any other viable employment options.

And 11 bucks an hour? As a graduate? That seems extraordinarily low to me, even for a small outfit. I know kids who worked at GE for the summer earning between 25 and 35 an hr, and I even think they got housing assistance.

I'm all for continuing ed, and it seems like you have a pretty good situation. I hope it turns
out well for you. At least you have some real world experience. I have degreed ME friends doing everything from selling insurance to cutting grass. One even went back to law school. Good luck and keep at it.
 
to be clear, I worked at that internship pre-grad and he was super flexible with my school schedule, so it was really nice. Other internships would be full time burns through the summer or something whereas he would literally let me come in whenever I had enough gap in my schedule and would let me be off if I had a big test or something coming up.

I do like coming up with designs of things, just not in meticulously sketched form. I like just doing a quick sketch to get approval and then jump into Solidworks to make a "cartoon" model. I find I can make a decent mock up in Solidworks faster than a finely sketched and colored hand drawn mock up.

It's funny that you mention law school as patent law was originally my career goal. It wasn't until I started my internship that I really understood what professional engineering was like vs. scholastic classes full of derivations and archaic methods that are all done by computer now. After seeing how much fun it is to actually build something from the ground up, I don't think being a lawyer would be much fun. There's also the factor that engineering generally doesn't come home with you when the work day is done whereas lawyers are never really off of the clock. I'm willing to give 100% during the work day, but once quitting time rolls around (excluding extenuating circumstances for a deadline), I want to be completely free. That's why I never liked school, it never leaves you alone, there's always homework or a test and you're never really free until the summer.

I think I may have been overreacting to my employment situation as now that I think about it, I've only recently really been learning the ends and outs of finding relevant job postings and what different types of companies look for in a resume/cover letter. If I don't have anything 6 months from now, THEN I'll start to worry, but then again, by then it'll be time for the fall semester to start, so I guess that gives me a year to find something.

Now to find a small part time job to have some spending money in the meantime...
 
I've faced some similar questions, living in a city where most of the engineering jobs were typically 1 hour drive out of the city (where square footage is at less of a premium).

If you haven't done so already, consider researching new and existing spin-off companies from universities in and around NYC. A good place to look is on the websites of the university commericalization or tech transfer offices. My recent experiences have led me to a fair number of spin-off companies that were situated close to the schools from which they originated. Many university spin-offs give you the opportunity to work on commercializing some bleeding-edge technology (nano- and bio-tech, microfluidics, robotics) Caveat emptor: from personal experience, working at companies like these require a lot of blood, sweat and tears, require you to do things that seem way out of your job description, and might not seem that rewarding at times. Also, university professors can make terrible employers. But in the end, if things work out, you'll be in on the ground floor of something huge. Just some food for thought.
 
Check,
We are in a very similar boat -same age, same degree and looking to live and work NYC. I was born, raised and went to college in NYC, but I, among many others, left because of lack of interest in HVAC. All of my engineering friends who remained in the city are in construction management or HVAC. That’s really all that’s here…
 
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