Socializing 11

[livingston]

Is socializing with the boss absolutely necessary to get ahead? My coworkers tend to go to the boss's office first thing almost every morning for little 'chats'. I don't feel the need to do so as I have already given him, in writing, project updates. Yet these people get more meaty projects. My projects are on schedule and I have asked my boss for more work because I feel underutilized. I have even asked him if he as a problem with my work. He has said no. Does it simply boil down to who he 'likes'? That seems insane to me. Any opinions?

 

[StressGuy]

We are people, not just "resources". As such, we need and should form connections with those we work with.

Quite frankly, while technical merit is important, in many cases, it is assumed that the engineer has the technical competnence. Yes, it is an incorrect assumption. My point, and I think it has also been well made by some of the others, is that how you are judged as an engineer has as much, if not more, to do with how you communicate and interact with clients/coworkers/supervisors as your skill.

From my own experience, I'm considered a first tier player in my group and one who is often requested in part becuase job leads have gotten to know me and know that I can effectively interact with clients and designers in addition to have strong technical skills.

If you find yourself continuing to struggle, you may want to see if there is a toastmasters group that you can join. It's not something I've ended up doing myself, but I have seen it help others become better communicators.

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

 

[livingston]

I think I have misrepresented a little here. I don't have issues socializing in general. I just tend to be averse to socializing with those I do not enjoy spending time with just because I have to. I lead meetings and talk to people in production all the time. I guess I just don't particularly like the idea of kissing my boss's butt when I don't like him. I also tend to be a little blunt at times but I am working on it.

 

[ziggi]

livingston,
I used to have a boss I clashed with, your own voice is usually the hardest beast to control. I learnt to keep it shut most of the time, when I realised that only lazy stupid men blurt out every thought in their heads (I was one at one point), the smart ones think about their words as much as their actions and only let out precise squeaks.
Basically you're scuttling your own chances of promotion (and consequently having another boss) by not talking to your current boss.
I personally dislike a few of my clients, but I grin and bear it, although my stubborn pride means that I still argue a fair bit (I may be more careful about my words, but I still like to get my way).

 

[HgTX]

One more time:

There is a world of difference between being friendly and kissing someone's butt.

If you hate your boss so much that *any* contact beyond the minimum technically necessary is just as bad as butt-kissing, you need to look for another job.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[Heckler]

There is a world of difference between being friendly and kissing someone's butt.

Butt to the casual observer it could be misread as "brown nosing".

 

[plasgears]

The movie Manhattan Project (not the one with the teenage bomb designer) brought out some interesting relationships among atomic scientists. The project manager, Gen. Groves, was miffed that scientists were standing around casually talking, when there was great urgency to produce results. One key scientist, Leo Szilard, explained that they needed to talk freely among themselves to work out concepts and arrive at concensus.

I llked to walk around and talk to other engineers doing similar work. Most of the time I was contributing. One semi-professional supervisor thought I was stepping on his toes. In fact, I was helping to improve an element of the design that was failing on test. The fix was simple and elegant.

 

[RDK]

It is usually a good place to work if there are things in the work place that facilitate communication.

Whiteboards in hallways that impromptu discussions can use is one sign of a workplace with good cross discipline and cross functional area communications.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[49078]

Socialize...

By not 'socializing' you aren't proving anything to anyone, suck it up and do whatever it you have to.

There are obviously extents to this, but being friendly and talking to you boss is not outside of these extents.

 

[monkeydog]

livingston,

My previous boss was unable to multi-task, repeated himself when giving tasks, mispronounced words, and never gave me a stellar appraisal. He also had certain people he favored, and would re-write my memos and presentations to be a little more politically correct. I did not care for his style, or for him personally. I was not alone.

But, managers higher up saw it fit to make him a manager over me. My coworkers and I had to deal with it. I would exchange discussions with him, and away from work he was not that bad. I later did not hold it against him or his friends.

You have a choice. You can deal with it, and make the best of your situation. Or, you can sit in your cubical and grumble.

From your posts it appears you are looking for someone to agree with you. OK, I agree. Your boss is a jerk. Now what are you going to do?

 

[livingston]

I guess I will keep doing what I have been doing. Playing the game when I hate it and I know it is obvious that I hate it.

Hg. I hear what you are saying.... I hear all of you. That doesn't make it any easier. I was hoping to hear something that would make it easier.

 

[RDK]

If it is obvious that you hate the "game" then you are not playing it very well.

Thy to think of your co-workers as human beings with their own personalities and that this socializing is an opportunity to get to know them better to more effectively work with them.

By any standard a little informal office chat to start the day is not much in the way of socializing, some firm’s have a culture where you spend almost all your free time socializing with fellow co-workers. Company bowling or other sports teams, company pub outings, company <any other activity that the boss likes>

There are 168 hours in a week. If you sleep 8 hours a day then you have 168-8*7=112 hours left. If taking care of body functions (eating, showering etc) takes another 2 hours a day and you spend an hour total in commuting then you have left 112-2*7-1*5=93 hours a week to take care of all remaining social, family and work activities. If you spend the minimum 40 hours at work that is almost half of your discretionary time. Since the remaining time would be spread around all your other obligations and activities you would spend more time with your co-workers than with any other group of people.

Best to get along with the people who you spend the majority of your time with.

If you think that by changing jobs that anything would be different you’re wrong. All workplaces have their informal rules and activities; your workplace doesn’t appear to be too bad considering.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[epoisses]

Livingston, you don't HAVE to socialize if you hate it! Not wanting to socialize is so politically incorrect that people will think I'm sarcastic, but honestly, if you hate it that much, why not look for a job where socializing is less important? Like, wrong example I know, subway train driver? Or, closer to engineering... auditor?

 

[HgTX]

Our auditor brings us baked goods.

Then again, there are two schools of auditing:
(1) Gotcha, you lazy cheating bastards!
(2) You shouldn't have done that. Here is how you should do it. Isn't that ever so much better? I'm so glad I could help.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[knji]

A lot of good advice has been given livingston. Say good morning to the boss, ask him or her how their weekend was and be human. Besides getting the job done, don't you care how other people are doing? Remember, we are all human.

 

[Ashereng]

If you don't socialize with someone, then they won't "get to know you". Getting to know someone, good manners, politeness, are all things people in civilized societies should do.

Ever seen James Bond movies? The villain always seems to give James Bond a martini (shaken, not stirred) before they try to kill him. That is civility.

You don't have to like everyone - actually, you probably won't like everyone - but, you need to be civil to them.

Some people confuse civility with "brown nosing". You are not brown nosing if you don't expect something in return. You can be friendly for friendly sake.