SolidWorks Lite 4

[kroth]

SW does not currently offer a "Lite" version of this excellent program. There are probably good reasons for and against this. Other solid modelers DO offer entry level versions at an affordable price (Alibre Design, for example at $795 --

https://alibre.com/register/purchase.aspx

).

Whether or not SW offers a Lite version is a corporate strategy decision SW needs to make.

In this forum I could I ask that any replies are limited to:

1. How such a Lite version should be structured in order to further the widespread adoption of SW.
2. Capabilities it should contain to be a useful limited use tool.
3. Whether or not you would buy it, and how much you would be willing to pay.

 

[kroth]

This thread is a secondary thread of my thread "Learning Solidworks" thread559-106785. SW offers a great deal of support, as well as an excellent free learning version of their basic program.

However, I would readily buy a Lite version at $500 or so. I would prefer starting out in SW from my own Lite version (that would allow me limited real entrance to the Solid Modeling world), rather than from a free "Personal Edition".- After working with a Lite version for a while, in the real world, it would become very clear eventually, whether or not $5k+ is justifiable (my expenditure of $5k is much more likely from a base of the $500 SWLite, than from the free "SW Personal Edition".

A SW Lite version limited to PARTS and ASSEMBLIES (no DRAWINGS) appears to me to be a useful entry level tool (the ability to explore engineering level designs focused on design intent and basic engineering issues). This would have to be a 100% stable, zero bugs, zero quirks version that is basic to all future upgrades, and establishes in me a feeling of dependability.

 

[MadMango]

Why don't you ask around in the Alibre Forum (forum859) and get some feedback on users that use it in a work-related capacity?

This would allow you to get a better feel of an entry-level 3D CAD system. You may find that it will satisfy your requirements, or you may find that after 6 months you need more capability from one of the mid-range systems like SolidWorks, SolidEdge or Inventor.

As for a lite version of SW, what capabilities would you remove or hobble to create a lite version? Limit the assembly count to 250 parts? Remove surfacing capabilities? Remove sheet metal features? Remove 2D capabilities? Or prehaps the lite version would remove photo-realistic rendering and animation?

Would you then want to go out and purchase a heftier version because you found the lite version lacked a subset of functions that you now require? Would you demand a discount or refund of the lite version since you are purchasing a more capable system?

Sorry to sound so cynical, but as others have stated, SolidWorks is a tool you use to complete your job. If one manufacturer doesn't have a tool you need, you find another manufacturer. If you needed a power drill, would you request Stanley Tools to create one for you (they don't make them)? Probably not. If you needed a hammer, would you ask Black & Decker to make one for you (they don't make 'em)? Probably not.

The point I'm trying to make is that each software vendor (maybe not parent companies) focuses their resources on a particular demographic and does very well marketing and suppling products and solutions to that demographic.

[green]"But what... is it good for?"[/green]
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[2ManyHats]

How would you define 'useful' as in 'useful limited use tool'?

Do you mean a version of SW that you would like to use in order to teach yourself SW?

So how about limiting the features available? Surely that's no good as you will need to have learnt these in order to say you can use SW.

What about a time limitation. Yeah, so every 12 year old and above can rip it off so they probably won't sell these $500 versions anyway.

How about limiting the number of parts on an assembly? So now where do you draw the line? Many companies who would be prepared to buy the full version could now make do with this 'Lite' version.

I actually haven't seen the PE edition, what are it's limitations?

When I specified SW for our company I tried several low-mid budget products but couldn't get any 'limited' version of SW to try. In the end I found someone who used it and managed to get about 5 hours use on their system. This and many conversations with companies that we would potentially use as contractors was enough to convince me that it fitted our needs. I then went to a reseller and negotiated a price.

Perhaps what you are really asking for is a student edition that perhaps can only be used alongside an approved course or a version that can do everything except export any file at all (well maybe a modified/encrypted file format that is only usable by SW approved trainer).

What actually would you wish to get from this version?

 

[jlcochran1]

I have SW 2005, Inventor 9 and Alibre v8 professional on my machine currently. I am relatively new to MCAD. We have had SolidWorks for about 5 years. Inventor for 1 year and just got Alibre this weekend. I have also had a couple of 30 day trials of SolidEdge. I would encourage you to go to Alibre’s site forum to get examples of people using Alibre for a production basis and take their 30 day trial offer, there is not much Alibre activity on this site..

While SW and IV have around 350,000 seats and Solid Edge around 200,000 seats Alibre would have less than 20,000 seats. My initial impression is that Alibre is like a SW lite or similar to what Intellicad is to ACAD Mechanical in the 2d world. We hope to use Alibre to give several of our engineers exposure to MCAD at a low cost over the next year as the product cost is less than the SW training while the concepts are very similar.

My initial impression of Alibre after using it a few hours this weekend is that it is where SolidWorks was a few years ago. Alibre is attempting to do the mid range MCAD products what they were successful at doing to the more costly programs s few years ago. It depends on what features you need. Alibre does give have an offer to give their program away to new graduating engineers and offers a 30 day money back guarantee on purchases.

Alibre seems to currently have 2 niche environments. Very small companies and individuals where a 4-5,000 program would be absolutely cost prohibitive and mixed environments in mid size companies. Small companies that currently utilize Intellicad or ACAD LT are Alibre target users. I saw a survey where Solid Works users ware asked what other software they used and Alibre along with AutoCAD was mentioned, presumably as a low cost method to make parts, since sketch association would be lost. Most mid size companies are going to require an established vendor with more training and support options than Alibre can currently offer, for these companies SW is a good choice.

There is an overview of Alibre v8 in this months Cadalyst magazine:

http://manufacturing.cadalyst.com/manufacturing/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=133490

 

[kroth]

No need to get bent out of shape - There is always a market/need for a Lite Version of anything. I own one $5.95 hammer, and it suits me fine, and has done many great things. Until I start doing complete buildings, I'll leave the $150 power nailer in the store. Many a great builder stared out just this way - one affordable hammer - and now his crews operate a slew of automatics (so, Stanley, profited many times over, just by selling a plain hammer as well - that's the way of smart business).

Other items are -
1. Does your boss pay (so who cares - let him blow his dough on the max for everybody, needed or not) - or does your piggybank spring for it (well, lets see now - -- ). So, lets not be too cavalier about the subject of cost/benefit.

2. Everyone would benefit if SW becomes a universal standard in its class - most vendors would use it, there are unlimited opportunities for SW designer jobs, SW is taught in all schools -- a Lite version might be the seed to do all this (or is SW already a universal standard?).

Engineers don't spend all their time wrestling with detail issues, how to draw a spring, for example, or most of the other esoteric issues subject of discussion in this forum. An engineers job is at the front end - the science, the function, the economics, the feasibilities, the basic choices --- . Engineers normally don't acquire designer level skills - it is not their job (although many engineers do the full job, concept to details).

So, is there a subset of SW (the equivalent of a pencil sketch) that an engineer might use -- where files can then be taken on by expert designers (in lieu of a pencil sketch) for completion in the FULL version.

It would seem to me that a program capable of creating good PART and ASSEMBLY files would be just that.

no Cosmos
no Automated details
no ???

An engineer just might be able to learn (and maintain) these elementary development/presentation skills) in addition to all the other things that need to be learned and maintained for engineering success. This would NOT obviate the need for the full version, imply cheapness, or whatever.






How about some ideas one could pass on to SW - (after all, see 2 above).

 

[kroth]

Also, why does Microsoft, one of the worlds richest corporation sell Windows XP for $600 or so; Win XP must be several magnitudes more complex than SW - guess what -- Windows covers the world. Lets help SW cover the world. They'll never do it at 5k.

Lets design for them a good SW Lite, one they might seriously consider, and possibly do.

 

[SBaugh]

What is the point of just creating Parts and Assemblies? If your wanting to learn SW get the Personal edition. There are no limtations only that you have to renew it after 90days and after a certain point you can't get it anymore. Also there is watermark on the drawings.

You mentioned something about getting your CSWP license before. Guess what! If you don't have an understanding of Drawings you will not pass SW CSWP test. So if being and expert is some thing you want to be in SW? You have to understand all aspects of SW, not justp arts and assemblies. A monkey can make a part or assmelby. Learning how to use the tool extensivly in ever aspect is something only some of us can do well. We all have a weak spots in understanding SW.

My quote still holds true about the SW lite issue. See below.

SW is inexpensive if you compare it other 3D CAD systems, plus the power that it has in it. It comes down to this. Do you Quality (SW) or Price (AutoCAD = free INV)

SW is not AutoCAD, so I hope they never come up with a SWLite product. If you want a cheap CAD system that has cheap tag on it like IntelliCAD. Or spend the cash for a good corporate edition of SW.

Having a Lite would require [red]more support[/red] on both my end and SW end. SW and myself are already busy enough with the Corporate, and education versions. In the end a LITE SW would [red]cost more money and it would not benefit anybody[/red] but those that are buying it. We would probably see a jump in maintainence on the corporate and education side as well as a jump in the Liet side. To keep up with the "Lite version"

SW Lite is bad idea no matter how you cut it. If you want Lite get the personal edition. But the deal is you can't produce production drawings without the watermark, plus you will be breaking an agreement with SW. So if you want SW, try getting in close to a VAR and maybe, just maybe they will give you a discount on a single seat of SW.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

Merry Christmas
faq731-376
faq559-716 - SW Fora Users

 

[SBaugh]

To answer your last question, They are doing pretty good considering most of the world went ACAD because they were they only company to produce a product that was like being on the board and since Computers were just starting to take over. ACAD was the software to have. That's not the case anymore. More and more ACAD users are dropping their seats of ACAD and INV and coming over to SW. So 300,000 seats is a big step. I don't think SW will ever be that big, since there are plenty of Competitors out there.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

Merry Christmas
faq731-376
faq559-716 - SW Fora Users

 

[automationbabe]

I think there's a student edition that prints with watermarks as well. Check your local college

 

[SBaugh]

If you check the thread that kroth listed. He lists what restirctions there.

Back to "Educational Seat" -- this was my first thought on coming upon SW some month's ago, and I reviewed several educational products resellers. For SW and Autocad they required that one was a full time degree seeking student or full time teacher.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

Merry Christmas
faq731-376
faq559-716 - SW Fora Users

 

[kroth]

SBaugh:

By the way, I never mentioned getting my CSWP license (whatever that is), and am not vaguely interested in total expertise, or this license -

I don't really care for my sake whether or not SW offers a SW version -I just happen to think that this is a good idea -- and SW Corp. should really do this.

I LIKE SW -- I REALLY DO, as far as I have gone. I don't NEED a cheap version -- I can afford to buy the full version -- nevertheless, I would rather have an appropriate tool for the job and for the level (even if it is at the monkey level - your term )- if it fills my needs for now. Maybe later on I'll get that automatic nailer -- .

Believe it or not -- I am trying to help SW corporation, more than myself with this thread - A window of opportunity is just now passing by -- if they don't grab the market any way they can -- they just might end up an also-ran -- . If I didn't like SW, I wouldn't waste my effort with this thread, and other posts.

Humbly, that is my opinion.

So, how about thinking seriously about a SW Lite package, instead of opposing this at every turn --.

Regards

 

[ctopher]

If the market shows a need for one someday, I'm sure SW will have one.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Kroth ... Although I applaud your intent, all the members here could spend time & create a wish list for a "Lite" version, but unless multiple, individual requests for such a system is received by SW, it ain't gonna happen! Printing it here will probably not help, even if SW is watching. Plus everyones wish list would be different, some would want sheet metal, others would want surfaces, etc. Most would find it useless if they could not print.

The marketing guys at SW are quite astute & if they felt there was a real need for it, I'm sure they would either have one, or be working on one. If having a Lite version is a key to success, how come the ones who have the Lite versions aren't as successful as SW?

Although I agree it might have been nice to have had such a version, I would rather SW use their resouces on perfecting what they have. As good as it is, there is still room for improvement.

 

[SBaugh]

Sorry kroth about the CSWP thing!! I must have got you confused with someone else. But I was sure it was you in another thread you started or posted too about, how you wanted to be an expert. Maybe it was someone else.

As for the Monkey it was just used to explain how easy it is to start using SW without any knowledge of the product.

CBL and ctopher are correct and deserve a star IMO.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

Merry Christmas
faq731-376
faq559-716 - SW Fora Users

 

[kroth]

Amazing - all I ever get on this thread is flack and side issues-- no-one ever says, for example: -- A Lite must absolutely have motion detection --

Anyway, thanks for your replies --

I Quit


Regards

 

[MadMango]

I think the lack of input on this thread could be attributed to most regular posters here find they need all the capabilities from SW that they can muster.

Thinking on what a "lite" version should or shouldn't have is hard to pin down, as the tools you need from any CAD system is going to be dependant on the type of work you (as an end user) do. For me, I could live with all the surfacing capabilities removed. Others would be looking for a new CAD system if it was removed.

SW has already developed a student version to get people exposed to 3D CAD with a bias towards their end product. They have already developed the personal edition to tempt users from other CAD systems to test the waters to see how they might like SW. Heck, they've even created a children's 3D "CAD" called CosmicBlobs (same URL) to hook 'em while they're young.

[green]"But what... is it good for?"[/green]
Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ctopher]

no-one ever says, for example: -- A Lite must absolutely have motion detection --

huh??

 

[2ManyHats]

Perhaps I'm paranoid but 'motion detection' feature sounds like a bosses tool to detect if you're working or not...

~)

Sorry Kroth but I disagree that SW should become the 'Windows' of the CAD world. Good competition leads to competative (inventive/productive) products.

If SW had such a share of the market that they no longer had a serious competitor I'm sure all the long-standing SW users that proliferate this forum would soon be reporting that new versions wern't as radical a step-up as previous revisions ("like they used to be in my day").