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Solutions for U.S. Unemployment and the Loss of Manufacturing Jobs: 29

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rhodie

Industrial
May 29, 2003
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Hello all!

I read the following article this morning. I think that many of you will enjoy reading it. Reflecting upon it, I arrive at two major conclusions:

1) The current situation is not hopeless, but represents the largest challenge that our Domestic Industry has ever undertaken. The effort requires an underlying "zeitgeist" of something close to what the USA experienced when building the great "Arsenal of Democracy" in WW2.

2) The solutions discussed in this article are nothing new to the participants of this forum. We have brought to light (in one form or another) every single proposed solution. In fact, the article details something of a precis of a half-dozen threads. The similarities are quite stunning, really. This article is valuable because it corroborates our shared insights and solutions of the past few months.

One last word: Be proud of your intellect, and be confident that we have every capability to solve these problems.

------------------------------------------------------
Source: Industrial Information Resources, Inc.

Solutions for Unemployment and the Loss of Manufacturing Jobs in the U.S.

HOUSTON--October 20, 2003--Editorial by Paul Laine, Consulting Engineer with Industrialinfo.com (Industrial Information Resources, Incorporated; Houston, Texas). There are two primary reasons for the increase in unemployment in the United States. First is the result of U.S. corporations attempting to compete in the World Trade Organization, while selling commodities to the world market. Commodities are commonly manufactured materials such as clothing, shoes, toys, chemicals, furniture, etc. Most countries (other than third world countries) can manufacture commodities as well as the U.S., but the problem is simply that the rest of the world pays much less for manufacturing labor than the U.S. For example, China and India have manufacturing workers who are happy to work for one dollar an hour.

Furthermore, India and China produce highly qualified engineers who are often better educated than ours and will work for much less. Many U.S. manufacturers answered this problem by laying off employees and relocating their plants to these areas of cheap labor. Blue Jean manufacturer, Levi Strauss & Company is a good example of this, recently announcing plans to close its last five plants in North America. (For details see archived IIR Industry Alert: World's Largest Jean Manufacturer Closes Last Five North American Plants

Other companies, as well, prefer to design products in the U.S. and then send parts to foreign countries for assembly. As a result, U.S. assembly workers become layoff victims.

The second reason for layoffs is the lack of new products coming into the marketplace. New products mean the hiring of new employees and greater job opportunities. If we can manufacture a new and unique product not elsewhere available, there will be a demand for jobs as well as an opportunity for profit. Initially, there will be no competition, and this will allow companies to set prices and control the sales. I can remember when our industries produced a flood of new and unique marketable products. What happened to cause this flood to dry up? The answer: American greed. Stockholders pressured corporate managers for a greater and quicker return on investment. CEOs became bean counters, and to obtain immediate cash they eliminated most or all of their research departments. This does not hold true for the Biotech/Pharmaceutical industry, which is spending billions on R&D and university type campuses for research. The result of this greed and mismanagement was the lack of new products. The fact that we have little research to develop new products forces manufacturers to produce commodities. We cannot maintain our standard of living by producing commodities.

Everyday, news headlines announce plant closures, cutbacks and mass numbers of employees whose jobs have vanished. Articles discussing the economy dismally recite that unemployment is near a high of over 6.2%. On television, we see charity food lines in Ohio a mile long. These people have to stand in line for hours trying to get food. What's wrong with this? This is the United States, not Africa or the Mid-East. I turn off the television in disgust, when I hear that the President has promised $15 billion dollars to Africa for relief. I have American friends in Ohio who should be the primary concern for relief. How does such a sad situation arise in Ohio and other U.S. states?

What are the underlying causes?

1) Manufacturing jobs are leaving the U.S. at an alarming rate.

2) Worldwide competition is growing rapidly in most areas of commodity manufacturing

3) In China, Southeast Asia, and India manufacturing workers are happy to work for one dollar per hour. In the U.S., the average wage is about twenty dollars per hour, and unions are constantly demanding more.

4) Many company executive officers have awarded themselves astronomically high wages and benefits, far beyond their actual worth. Stop this now. It's criminal.

5) Many U.S. companies are moving or building new plants in Asia to take advantage of cheap labor.

6) Most companies have drastically reduced or eliminated their research departments, because of stockholder pressure and quick return on investment. The end result of this is that fewer new and unique products come to the market. Corporations today invest only 10% of sales dollars into research. In the 1960's and 1970's, 40% of sales dollars were directed to research. This was the time when the world beat a path to our door to buy products they couldn't get elsewhere. No more! Now our industrial segment generates few products that can be classified as new and unique. Without research and new product generation, we are reduced to commodity manufacturing, and we will have to compete on the leveling plane of the World Trade Organization.

On the positive side, the advent of new products, born of research, will dictate the hiring of thousands of new employees.

7) Recently, we have heard that some universities are cutting back on their engineering, physics, and chemistry facilities because of a lack of student interest. If this becomes a common practice, our days as a great nation will soon be over.

8) In Information Technology (IT), jobs are being lost at a record rate as companies all over the U.S. have been outsourcing 60% of their work, with much of it going to India. CAD/CAM program work (design) is also being outsourced to India.

Economics forces the need to cut costs. The availability of cheap foreign labor and current immigration laws are creating a serious threat for process control and instrumentation professionals in North America. At risk are jobs ranging from process engineering and control system integration to plant operations and maintenance.

One of the biggest problems appears to be the L-1 Visa, which allows cheap labor without restriction. The more familiar H1-B Visa allows foreigners with special skills to work in the U.S. Few people are aware of the L-1 Visa, which allows U.S. companies with overseas offices to transfer foreign employees to their U.S. operations. According to the New York Times (Oct 1, May 30), the use of L-1 Visas to bring in workers, with a large fraction coming from India, has become a popular strategy among firms seeking to cut labor costs. They are now routinely used by companies based in countries like India and elsewhere, to bring workers into the U.S. and then to contract them out to American companies. Unlike the H1-B Visa, The L-1 does not require employers to pay workers prevailing wages. In addition, there is no cap on the L-1 visas. One estimate says there are 325,000 L-1 visa holders in the U.S. today. This amounts to 325,000 jobs lost by Americans, because of L-1 visa holding foreigners, who work for much less money.

9) We have failed to impress upon our children the importance of acquiring knowledge. Our high schools are graduating seniors that have poor skills in reading and comprehension, in addition to having a lack of depth in math and science. Meanwhile, European and Asian students have a greater appreciation for the value of knowledge, and work harder to achieve academic success. Thus, their ability to comprehend and rationalize exceeds that of American students. Fifty years ago, our schools were the envy of the world. Not now! If we do not correct this problem, there is little chance that we can maintain our leadership in technology as well as our standard of living.

In conclusion, there is a fundamental truth involved here. The U.S. cannot maintain its standard of living and belong to the World Trade Organization at the same time unless we can produce a continuous flow of new products not elsewhere available. We cannot continue to manufacture commodities and maintain our standard of living. Every country can produce commodities. Sales will go to those with the lowest labor costs.

How do we solve this problem?

Here are some of the actions we might consider:

1) Re-establish research as a major function of corporations.

2) Revitalize the school systems to meet the long-term needs of industry by producing highly educated technical employees. Re-establish the idea that learning can be fun and the acquisition of knowledge is of paramount importance to the future of our country.

3) Hire highly educated people to run the research departments.

4) Reduce the pay of the CEO and other executive officers to be consistent with their real contribution to the corporation.

5) Write your representatives in Congress. Explain objectives. Ask their help on issues such as education and L-1 Visas.

A final word: If we can maintain a flow of new and unique products into the world market, we will maintain our position as the world's greatest economy.

Industrialinfo.com (IIR) is the leading provider of global industrial market research. We specialize in helping companies develop information solutions to maximize their sales and marketing efforts. For more information send inquiries to industrialmanufacturing@industrialinfo.com or visit us online at
 
The only disagreement I have is calling the 5 identified steps "a solution."
They are not. They might be a part of the solution. But a real solution must be the objective of a PLAN which is believable and achievable.

Step 5, writing and calling congress-critters to urge action on the other items is a key part of the plan. They will do nothing in Washington unless they feel heat from the homefront.

Politicians are not in office for the betterment of America. They are in office for the material benefit of themselves and their families first and their political parties second.

The key problem of course is lack of organization and money. The companies spend lots of money supporting politicians who will support them. Ordinary citizens have nothing comparable. Even our professional engineering societies are largely apolitical. The same cannot be said of legal and medical societies.
 
Like it or not the world is a global economy.

Jobs are leaving the US for one reason and one reason only.

That reason is that the product can be manufactured elsewhere for less money.

The ONLY way to change this is to manufacture goods and produce services for less labour costs than are being done elsewhere. You can raise productivity, lower labour costs or raise labour costs elsewhere (That is pay a fair living wage to third world workers. This can be along the lines of the fair trade initiative for coffee, tea and chocolate)

It’s that simple.

If research and innovation was the key, then please explain why the Japanese and others are producing many products conceived, invented and designed in the US.

To use tariffs will result in inefficiencies of trade and production that will end up costing the US consumer more money for inferior goods and services. Look at the state of quality control in the US automobile industry in the 70’s compared to Japanese and European manufacturers. This gave those manufactures a head start that is still benefiting them today.

Also remember that it was Ford that taught Japan how to build a quality car in the 20’s and 30’s, they just forgot how to do that themselves in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s.

Look at the US price of beef. Due to the mad cow scare in Canada the US border is closed to our beef. We now have such a surplus of beef that live animals are not worth the cost of slaughter. Our retail process is down 30% or more since May and US prices are up 50% or more.

While this is not strictly a manufacturing issue it does dramatically show the effect of limiting international trade. Your own beef industry is now making some serious windfall profits. Is this resulting on better beef in the markets? (Don’t think so.)

Restrict trade in manufactured goods and the price will rise, quality will drop and since these tariffs will in many cases violate international trade treaties that the US freely signed the reputation of the US will suffer.

The loss of jobs in the third world will cause some massive social changes towards poverty and despair. Remember that it is poverty that drives a lot of the hatred in this world, why not make some more poverty in the Third World and watch what happens?




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
 
"4) Many company executive officers have awarded themselves astronomically high wages and benefits, far beyond their actual worth. Stop this now. It's criminal"

Is it really? Gosh, ought to be pretty easy to prosecute then, since the evidence is in each company's annual report. Oh, you mean it isn't criminal. No, like most of the rest of that article it is just meat-headed populist opinion.

Rhodie, you still haven't posted the statistics from a reputable source demonstrating the super-productivity of USAn workers that justifies their high wages. I am particularly interested to hear how USAn engineers using the same tools and processes as me, in the same industry, can justify charging 30-50% more than we do.

Cheers

Greg Locock
 
In the old days, communication was not as easily accomplished as it is now. If it was like it used to be then forget about losing jobs to other countries. It is not that US engineers deserve more than say Indian engineers. It all has to do with exchange rates. It cost more to live in the US than India so naturally the wages are higher in the US. The only thing that has changed is the economics in using labor in other countries - it is a lot cheaper than it would have been 20 years ago due to the advances in communications.
 
I cannot believe that jobs are leaving the US primarily due to labor (and engineering) costs in the US. If this were true, then California, (specifically silicon valley) would have been the last place companies would have located the past decade. Labor costs, taxes, and land costs in this part of the country have been perhaps the highest in the country, if not the whole world. (OF COURSE - I'm speaking the situation prior to the present recession).

One reason for jobs/manufacturing moving overseas that is frequently not mentioned is the simple fact that foreign governments are offering incentives for companies to relocate that cannot be ignored - waver of taxes, free land, sometimes underwriting construction of the entire facility, and the labor to run it.

20 years ago, I worked as a very well known company that was making a high volume consumer computer product. The plant I was at worked hard to bid on production of this product. We applied automation solutions and unique supplier tie-ins that would have substantially reduced the cost of this product, and won the company internal bidding for this product over a company facility in a foreign country. When this happened, the foreign government bought the company facility located there (about 1/2 million square feet in size), and turned around and leased it back to the company for $1 per year. Since the facility was now government owned, the eliminated taxes on production associated with the facility. The product went to this foreign company.

It is not easy to compete with this. Changes has to come from the corporate or government level. The US government has got to decide that jobs in the US are important, and create an environment in which companies will want to stay in the US, or create disincentives for moving out of the country. Unfortunately, 'global economy', 'service ecomony', and 'positive stock price incentives from downsizing' are the norm.
 
Greg:

Rhodie, you still haven't posted the statistics from a reputable source demonstrating the super-productivity of USAn workers that justifies their high wages. I am particularly interested to hear how USAn engineers using the same tools and processes as me, in the same industry, canjustify charging 30-50% more than we do.

I didn't realize that's the point I was defending. I thought the point I was defending is that US manufacturing is more productive in comparasion to that of most other nations. As far as my response to you, I have not yet posted one because I have not found a source that we could both agree as being "reputable". The difficulty lies in finding a third-party survey of US productivity that translates into more than one industry. Even the UN seems to avoid taking such a measure. Give me time, and I'll find something that we'll be able to bicker over in the future.

Please, don't be offended either. I am not meaning to spew a brand of nationalist rhetoric intended to alienate or make enemies of our foreign partners. On the contrary, I find that the practices of my Government and their "corporate purses" harm the third world and keep it oppressed far more than they improve it.

The USA, like Australia, needs globalization to survive. The problem is that globalization, in it's current form, is serving to destroy my country, not improve it. The fault lies within Corporate Management, not the Chinese or Indians.

No one in the world would benefit from the collapse of the USA, and that very scenario is starting to be played out.


 
I wish I could remember the exact quote and who it is from, but please allow me to paraphrase.

When a country makes money its god, it does not live to see the god it created.

The "collapse of the USA" is not new. This has been happening since we started worrying more about our stock prices than our next door neighbor or even our immediate family. We are just now seeing the further step of this progression, or should I call it degression.

Most engineers, being of high moral and ethical character, remember that there are vices in this world. For those of you who don't remember, you may instead recall the movie Seven, which is about the 7 deadly sins. One of those sins is GREED. The degeneration of American society is the root of our problems and the degeneration stems from greed. If you look at the recent problems of US society, you can trace the root cause to greed.

For Example:
Enron --> Greed
Power Outage --> lack of infrastructure improvements --> why? too costly --> greed
Jobs leaving to other countries --> why? cheaper labor --> more profits --> who gets the extra profit --> greed
Stock market makes top news story every day --> greed
SEC finds more and more accounting errors --> why? companies that can't make money, fake money --> greed

Quite frankly, its my opinion that the US needs this Great Awakening, and that's coming from a US citizen. But on the lighter side, the US has historically made great transitions in industry only to grow stronger from it. Granted it takes a long time for the general population to be retrained, but sometimes you have to trim a few limbs to make a stronger tree. I'm sure the US will bounce back, but most likely in an industry that hasn't fully defined itself yet: biotech, biomed, genetics, rapid manufacturing, space. We just have to hold on to the ride.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376
 
Star to swertel. I don't believe this is the only cause but is certainly a large part of it.

The exchange rates plays an important role in why things are the way they are. For example, $1 = 43 rupees (India). If I can buy a cup of coffee here for $1 then the same dollar in India will likely buy 43 coffees in India (not sure of coffee prices in India but you get my point). So you can see why the wages in another country would be lower. Its not that they are less skilled its just the dollars go a lot farther there than here. Look at Japan. When I took some Japanese culture classes I was told that a cup of coffee over there was about $7 USD. If this is still the case, then you can imagine why the US sees so many Japanese tourists, its cheap here for them. Same thing applies to the US and Mexico. The US corporations are capitalizing on this via the high-tech world of communications, etc. Until corporations quit worrying about only the bottom line, then this trend will continue.
I am sure you have noticed the trend in mergers and acquisitions. This is scary to me because of the power and money behind these giants. In the future, I see a company so large that it has more power and influence than the government itself. If it is ran by the same greed that so many companies are ran with today, the US will indeed be a sad place.
Unfortunately, I believe the only solution is for companies to take a hit, sacrifice a little profit (pay US labor costs and increase R&D) for the good of the US. This will not likely happen. And I can't say I blame the corporations because if it cost x dollars to make a product and a company over seas somewhere makes it for x/2 dollars then how can they compete?
Enough of my rambling.
 
I am from India and I have a small foundry manufacturing castings. I shall try and present the Indian side of the story.It is no longer attractive for us to export castings to US as the dollar has weakened by about 15% to the Indian Rupee. Also the US buyers are demanding 0.9-1.0 US$ per kilo of castings ,while it fetches 1.3-1.6$ locally. These low prices are offered by China,where the government encourages every which way. We have to pay a fair wage,(100-150$ per month) for a semi skilled worker and 200 -250$ for an engineer. Most of the work is done manually as investment on plant and machineries is expensive,(interest is 18% minimum)and also funds are difficult to source.Power tariffs are extremely high(12 cents/kwh) and the quality of power is poor.

Also it is becoming difficult to attract youngsters as they are keen to join software companies and land into US.(Quality of the candidates doubtful or suspect).

Manufacturing is no longer an attractive business proposition in India. China has the edge as it has a closed society with open minds,while we have an open society with closed minds.
 
Rhodie,
"The USA, like Australia, needs globalization to survive."

Please, the USA needs globalization to continue to grow at its current rate to please the stock holders. If a company makes 5 billion dollars it won't be happy to make 5 billion the next. It will need to make 6 billion to make it stock holders happy. Do you see the problem? I think someone mentioned a big problem - greed! If everyone in the world had the quality of living of the states the world would collapse on itself. The wealth is slowly spreading around the world and the states doesn't like it but it was the states that made the big push for globalization.


 
swertel,

I’d like to quote from another well-known movie, Wall Street, where the main character makes the point that “greed is good”. Why should we be penalized for wanting a better life? Hasn’t this been the driving force for our economy since the industrial revolution? Are you willing to make personal sacrifices for the good of your fellow countrymen? How about paying higher taxes? How about giving up some of your salary at work so that the lower paid individuals can have higher wages? How about donating more of your spare time doing community service work for the less fortunate?

We have all personally profited from increased corporate profits, higher stock values, higher property values, higher salaries, higher standards of living, etc. in recent years. This includes everyone from the highly-compensated corporate board member to the lowly engineer. I think the real issue here is that engineers are becoming concerned that their high paying engineering jobs are being exported overseas (just like low paying manufacturing jobs have over the past 20 years). Therefore, engineers are now faced with the reality that they will have to start giving up their high paying salaries, high price cars & houses, their children’s college education, or will have to work longer to make ends meet. And for what … so that some highly paid corporate board member can make more money off of your labor? Welcome to the real world!

Your statement that “the US will bounce back” is somewhat contradictory. Are you expecting that these other industries, biomed, biotech, genetics, etc. will experience a “boom” just like the telecommunications industry did a few years back so corporate profits will rise, employment will rise, salaries will rise, stock prices will rise, etc? Won’t you personally profit from this? Doesn’t this fall under your definition of “greed”? Is it okay for this to happen because you (as an engineer) will be making money along with the highly-paid corporate board member?

To paraphrase what RDK so succinctly stated, if your job can be done more efficiently and more cheaply by someone else (overseas), then it is an inevitable fact that corporate America (driven by profit goals) will see to it that your job is exported. The key for us engineers is to quit whining and stay ahead of this trend by obtaining formal and on-the-job training so that you are indispensable to your employer.

pj
 
The problems regarding the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs from the United States really became a serious problem when China was granted most favored nation trade status. That opened the door for products to flow freely from China to the US, and they have buried us in consumer products ever since. Walk into WalMart and look at what's on the shelves. Most of their products were manufactured in China. Can you close the door after it's been opened this wide?


Maui
 
For those who desire to see some numbers behind why most of us in the US are concerned.


The table on manufacturing employment shows that in the US it dropped 4.7% in 2000-2001 and another 6.8% in 2001-2002. Any country having that type of drop requires response. There is a lot of other information within the report as well. The BLS site in general has some statistics from other countries but information from closed societies does not seem to be available.

Regards
 
pjhype,

I'm not going to answer all your questions as they seem to me to be mostly rhetorical -- something posted to get the mind working.

I'd like to return the favor by asking a clarification on your first questions. What is "a better life"?

In my opinion, a better life is not neccessarily one with a higher salary. Quite frankly, I was much happier in my youth when I only made $5/week allowance. I knew all my neighbors for over a mile in both directions. I ran freely in their yards and no one sued me for trespassing. We didn't have fences and we all watched out for each other.

A better life to me would be reverting back to those days were people worked hard for their money, were happy with what they made, and made the best of it. A better life to me is not a new plasma TV. A better life to me is a society not measured by material wealth, but by wellbeing. But, that's just me.

I apologize for bringing this thread more off topic. To bring it back on topic, I would have to say as others have above, it is not industry that needs to change its ways. Let the jobs go. It is the engineers that need to change their priorities to accept the changing economy and industry and move on. A really good thread to start would be how we as engineers can change society away from these vices towards a more utopian world.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376
 
I'm going to think out loud for minute. (This just came to me after I submitted the above post.)

What if we in the US, and I mean EVERYBODY, cut our pay in half? At the same time, we dropped the prices of all our goods by half. In essence, our buying power would remain the same so we would have the same standard of living. The problem lies with imported goods and whether or not we could cut their prices in half as well as local goods.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376
 
Scott,

Labor costs do not represent 100% of the price (and certainly not cost) of an item. Cutting employee pay by half will not enable prices to fall by the same percentage.


Best regards,

Matthew Ian Loew
"Luck is the residue of design."
Branch Rickey


Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
 
QCE:

Rhodie,
"The USA, like Australia, needs globalization to survive."
Please, the USA needs globalization to continue to grow at its current rate to please the stock holders.


I never thought in a million years I'd be asked to defend globalization, as I feel that I've one of the more obnoxious opponents of the situation. Frankly, I enthusiastically agree with 99% of what you said, but, if executed properly, "Globalization" is a major component of a stable domestic economy.

Globalization opens new markets, resulting in greater demand.
Globalization promotes foreign investment, resulting in "recession proof" cashflows.

And frankly, Dr. Deming would have been listened to far earlier domestically if globalization had been more of a economic factor in the 40's-50's. As it was, it took 30 years for the US to become aware of the quality situation. American autos are much more reliable now because of direct Japanese competition. Globalization results in better quality products.

It's the damned greed that ruins the practice for everybody:
* Globalization should not result in an outrageously inflated quantity of imports. It should result in a increased quantity of exports.
* Globalization should not result in keeping poor people poor by taking advantage of their predicaments. It should result in raising the standards of living for a qualified few, if not the collective whole.
* And above all else, Globalization should not put domestic employees out of work.



 
Rhodie,

I'm glad we mostly agree. However I'm confused by the last bit. If:

* Globalization should not result in an outrageously inflated quantity of imports. It should result in a increased quantity of exports.

How can this work, if one country has increased exports then one country has increased imports there for globaliztion can not work for everyone by this rule, only some (and I assume you want the US to be in the group that makes more and therefore you are screwing some other country)


* Globalization should not result in keeping poor people poor by taking advantage of their predicaments. It should result in raising the standards of living for a qualified few, if not the collective whole.

This statement basically says make the rich - richer and if possible the poor - richer (but not necessarily).

* And above all else, Globalization should not put domestic employees out of work.

Well if you are on the unbalance that will be created by the first statement then it will put domestics out of work.

That's the way I see it.
 
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