Someone please calm me down, thanksà 4

[Cutiee]

I got blamed for something I didn’t do at work! Ok here is the story.

Our company makes metering skids, every project we do, we have a folder for it, and so we can save all the relevant drawings and documents in the folder.

Last week a set of drawings for one particular job (I didn’t even work on that job) got deleted or moved, well we don’t know which, but they just somehow disappeared from the project folder (weird enough, it’s the second time it has happened!). The drawings are panel drawings, I never really need to look at panel drawings, but as an E&I engineer I have access to those folders too.

IT was unable to find who deleted or moved those drawings, they just blamed on me, the “proof” they say they have is the folders I have on my desktop, I have a habit of CREATING new folders for each job I do, so I can save bits, pieces info or draft in it for my own reference, apparently I’m the only one who has folders on my desktop, so IT just automatically assumed that I’m the one who MOVED all the folders from project folder to my desktop, even though I didn’t even work on the project that lost panel drawings.

This guy who works at IT sent out emails to all managers and managing director about his accusation, and asks for me to take responsibility.

I feel very upset and angry, I want to cry I don’t know what to do, I can’t concentrate on my work right now. I explained everything to my line manager, and he said he would talk to IT, but he said no one could really tell whether I moved or created those folders on my desktop although the name and content are completely different from the missing folders!

The IT guy worked in the company for years and years, and basically IT department can’t run without him, and I only worked here less than a year, and certainly I have no proof that I created the folder, and I didn't move them then changed the title and content (just why the heck would I do that?!)… Everybody believes him except some colleagues who work with me everyday that know me well.


Cuttie

 

[cvg]

we had a similar thing happen, only it wasn't discovered until weeks after it had happened. IT wasn't able to locate the missing files. I found the missing files by doing a full search of the project file server and discovered several projects that had been moved that way. It is easy to accidently drag and drop a file or folder into another directory without even noticing.

 

[SomptingGuy]

I can't believe what I'm reading here.

Do some companies really base their computer records on nothing more than M$ filesystems, with (flaky) daily backups on top?

It should never be possible to accidentally move stuff around (and lose it).

What happens when a bridge collapses or a plane crashes and the investigators want to review the calcs and/or drawings involved?

- Steve

 

[ewh]

In our case, back ups more than a day old are stored off site, and we are currently making a business case to present to corporate as to the need of a good PDM system. But, yes, it is true that some companies do not recognize the true value of their intellectual data.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - [small]Thomas Jefferson [/small]

 

[EddyC]

SomptingGuy,

I worked in one "company" where it was possible for someone to go postal and walk off with the server & backup tapes without anyone stopping them. This would have put the place out of business.

I worked in another place where they at least put the server & tapes behind a locked door.

 

[ctopher]

"It should never be possible to accidentally move stuff around (and lose it)."

Trust me, it happens...I have personally witnessed it happening. Then they pretend it was not their fault.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[KENAT]

Sompting - yes. And it's not that uncommon.

My current place backs up every night and swaps the tapes to an off site location, I think once a week. I can't remember how long till those tapes are over written.

Our released drawings are in write restricted folders and some project folders have limited permissions to restrit access etc. but basically untill a drawing's released it's a free for all.

We don't have many safety critical calculations (no bridges or aeroplanes) but other than drawings the rest of the design stuff is very adhoc.

I was part of a team trying to get a PDM/PLM system in place but it got no where.

In fact, it sounds that in some respects Cuttie may be more organized than us.

(Now that the PLM is out my Director thinks we should look at formallizing at least our folder structure etc. if we hadn't spent 2+ years on PDM/PLM we'd have already done that, now we're too busy after layoffs. Speaking of which what am I doing wasting my time here, I'm off.)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[ewh]

I feel for you, KENAT. Our corporate IT department sent down a mandate that ANY file control scheme was to be orchestrated by them, and we are to use SharePoint for the control of everything, including relational CAD files (won't work). I don't really relish my task of selling our choice of PDM to them, so the first thing I have to do is to be able to sell it to their bosses at corporate.
That and design and checking and CAD file management and creating standards... I really ought not be here either.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - [small]Thomas Jefferson [/small]

 

[KENAT]

Funny ewh, we have one of those mandates too, SAP apparantly is the choice as we already have it for ERP. No idea if it supports file linkages, I wasn't invited to the presentation - only managers that haven't used CAD or similar for years if ever. It's on hold at the moment so we'll see what happens. Anyway you have my sympathy.

Cuttie, just to try and encourage you. We had somone here who jacked up a bunch of data by independantly downloading a newer version of our CAD system (despite having been told it was already being looked at) opening up a bunch of project critical files and forcing them to the new version which wasn't backward compatible. We lost something like 2 man days worth of work or something and it took several days to even restore to that point as the tapes had just been sent off site and had to be returned.

Not only did he not get reprimanded at the time, but he survived the layoffs a couple of months later. He did eventually get let go at the next lay offs 6 months or so later but that was part of a 10% reduction.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[jmw]

Sometimes these guys survive longer than they should for some surprising reasons.

Sometimes Management gets a down on someone so badly they won't let them go during redundancies. In the case of one guy, as his manager told me in an unguarded moment, they'd rather keep him and go through the disciplinary procedures so they could fire his **s and send him out with nothing whereas making him redundant would means giving him redundancy money.

In another instance, the company finally had had enough with a long term employee but dismissing them from their job was going to be expensive. They decided to offer the person a new position with much better pay but on a 3 month trial period i.e. a new contract.

Yes, you guessed it, they planned to sack them at the end of the 3 months. It would have worked, too, except the manager took a day off at the wrong time and when he did carry out the sacking it was a day over the 3 months and they got cleaned out.

Management may know nothing about running a company but when it comes to personal grudges and fixing someone's wagon they can be smart as foxes.






JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ewh]

Yes, SAP is also in the picture, as we have been using it as our ERP system for a couple of years now. The software we are considering can interface with it, so that should not be a huge issue.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - [small]Thomas Jefferson [/small]

 

[Cutiee]

According to drawing people “Each time this happens causes us many days of rework. Within the last 3 weeks we have lost the (System Block) folder, the (Panel GA) folder and the (Panel Schematics) folder.”

According to IT “the drawings that have got deleted were created on the same day, since we only back up everyday at 7pm, the missing drawings couldn’t be backed up”

Sounds like someone is lying….

Yeah IT searched everywhere, couldn’t find the drawings

And also I was told off for my habit of creating new folders for each job I do on my desktop, apparently it’s the company rule (suggested by IT) that no one should work on their desktop, but the actual project server/folder.

I think the whole thing (me being blamed) is over, me and the IT guy; we just don’t talk to each other anymore, well for now, seems a bit childish, but feels fine for me

Thanks for the replies xxx


Cuttie

 

[ctopher]

True, you should never save drawings on your desktop. Were those drawings also deleted?

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 3.1
AutoCAD 08
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[ewh]

I can't argue with the rule of not working in separate folders of current files on your hard drive, even preliminary ones. We have seen many problems by that practice. Our solution was to create separate "I" drives on the server for each user. If someones computer dies, no problem as far as company data is concerned. They are only accessable by that user and the administrator, and work just as well as if you were doing it on your own hard drive.
Only infrequently does IT request that we clean them up due to server space running low.
When I first started at this company, is was still quite small and had the old "Drafting and Document Control" mindset, as opposed to "Data and Document Control" and were more concerned with controlling the actual paper drawings than they were the files which created them. This led to most engineers doing all of their work on their own computers, saving the files there when completed, and only passing the approved printed drawings to DDC. In those relatively rare instances where the files were actually passed on to DDC, to get access to them you had to sign out a CD with the files on them. Since I was hired to operate a relational CAD system, I had to put a halt to those practices, with good reason.
We are still struggling with old school mindsets, but we are making progress.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. - [small]Thomas Jefferson [/small]

 

[KENAT]

Yeah Cuttie, your IT are probably right about not working on your local drive. There are various reason, drive not typically backed up, potential duplication of files, access problems with files (other users) & the list goes on.

We also have P "Personal Drives" on the server that only we and the IT folks have access to. However most work is done in another system folder, either related to the project or ECO. We also each have X "transfer" drives, these are used for sharing/transferring data (to avoid email attatchments) and anything more than 2 weeks old in them is deleted each weekend.

Anyway, hope it pans out for you and maybe you'll learn something from this (not working on you local drive most of the time).

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Cutiee]

no, my drawings were never deleted, i never even worked on the project that got drawings missing, i just got blamed randomly

Cuttie

 

[jmw]

A blunt knife then.
You know, with the scale of the problem as it is I'm surprised nothing more serious hasn't happened or maybe it has and it's been well covered up.
This is going to happen a few more times yet if no one actually addresses he problem. An aggressive response by you means that next time the IT guy will choose a softer target for the next scapegoat.

It also sounds like if you don't put together some form of proposal no one will. Of course, one day it may be your work that gets deleted and you are going to like that even less than you like being blamed for someone else's "mistake". There ought to be enough good ideas from the folks here for you to put together a pretty good proposal as having been "benchmarked" against what other companies do.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[calguy07]

ok, not sure if i missed something here but if they accused you of moving the files instead of copying, then can't they retrieve the files from YOUR desktop since supposedly that's where you "moved" them to instead of copying??

 

[Cutiee]

Exactly, i think they are just making stuff up to cover up that they failed to backup.

that's why he got told off my manager and later by the managing director " If someone is maliciously and deliberately ignoring this for no good reason then it would be a disciplinary offence, but I see no evidence of this and it is wrong to single out any individual at this moment."

so its all clear now i had nothing to do with the data loss, well i hope its all clear


x

Cuttie

 

[jmw]

Er, was that a complete retraction by IT?
Are you fully exonerated?

From the wording you quote it sounds like the Scottish result of "not proven" (We are mostly used to guilty or not guilty verdicts but Scottish law allows for this third option.)
IT seems to be saying "we can't prove it."
If they can't prove who did it or why then basically they can't prove who didn't do it. The earlier accusation stands as unproven but isn't it also impossible to prove your innocence? In other words IT threw some mud and yours is still the name in the frame.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[MedicineEng]

Go to his office and hit him with a keyboard...)

As some said I would do a very public question:

"This already happened 2 times in the last XXX months. What is our IT department proposal to avoid happening again? Also, what is our IT department proposal to avoid that back-ups" do not loose documents?"