SprinkCAD vs. HydraCAD 2

[bksprinkler]

Has anyone used both programs? My company is considering making a change in the sprinkler design and calculation software we use, and I would like to know what other users think of the programs, especially if there is someone who has used both.

 

[TravisMack]

I have only used HydraCAD and it is a great program. Have you considered AutoSprink? If not, you may want to look into that as well.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[bksprinkler]

Thanks, Travis. I have not used Autosprink. I have heard good things about it. Unfortunately, it is not AutoCad based, and the type of work we do requires an AutoCad based program. I have also heard that it has trouble with importing large autocad drawings, and the majority of the projects I work on are large (~200,000+ sq. ft. footprints).

Does HydraCAD have any bugs or issues you have encountered? How does it handle large systems? Any issues with loops or grids?

 

[TravisMack]

The only issue that hydracad had with large systems was that they used to have it set up so you were limited to drawing between 0,0 and 899',899' or something like that. I believe that has been resolved.

The only bugs I really had with HydraCAD involved the fabrication listing. It was just the loose material always seemed to give me fits. I could get it to list the fabricated pipe at near 100% accuracy, but the loose material was about 50%. You just have to draw in a manner that HydraCAD wants the information. It is not complicated and shouldn't really require you to change much of what you do.

The calcs work pretty good. It has 2 way data flow, but once you return sizes to the drawing, it was more of a pain to go back and change the calcs later if you needed to modify pipe sizes. You usually had to manually modify pipe sizing in the drawing at that point. It was not a major issue, just something to know. I am not very familiar with the new SMART Tools by hydracad that allows it to generate 3D drawings for import to NAVIS and other programs.

With regard to AS and Autocad based, you do import and export autocad drawings. I take all DWG files from the architect and import them to AS to draw. If needed, I can take my AS file and export to DWG and provide to anyone who needs it. It also works very well on large projects. I have done a 600k sq ft warehouse without issues, 200k sq ft hospital floors without drawing problems as well as large schools and other things like that. I am not saying AS is bug free and perfect by any means, but it is a really good program and does play well with AutoCAD. AS was the main drawing program for the City Center project in Las Vegas as well, so it can be used to handle monster sized projects.

I think you would be happy with HCAD or AS as both are excellent programs.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[MGXFP]

Autosprink seems more to be a parametric modeler than a drafting software like AutoCAD. AutoCAD can do primitive 3D fine but much more than that and you really need a modeler. Autosprink can import .dwg files without problems and creates a 3D model instead of a traditional 2D drawing. I prefer HydraCAD for the AutoCAD utility, sometimes I just need to do 2D drafting and AutoCAD is the best for that IMO.

I will echo what TravicMack said about HydraCAD. The calculation program is great (personally I manually enter the nodes and info to avoid the trouble mentioned above when changing pipe sizes). The fabrication listing is excellent for welded mains and threaded branchlines but a shot in the dark for loose material, fittings, couplings, etc. For large projects sometimes it is necessary to break the file up if you are like me and use paperspace exclusively to plot. I have the entire job in one file typically and HydraLIST cannot process over 255 unique ID tags (ie main tags or branchline tags) IIRC.

I use the smart tools often. It works very well for BIM via Navisworks. We have done a few jobs using it and the results have been good.

Sorry I can't comment much on SprinkCAD. We chose HydraCAD because it costs much less than Autosprink and I thought a parametric 3D modeler was frankly overkill for overhead piping. Industry will evolve to a point where everyone is using parametrics, but there are too many old farts who will never switch to 3D so I gamble that the time for that is a ways off in the future.

 

[TravisMack]

The costs with AS and HydraCAD are closer than in the past, at least for a single station - as that is all I have. I know that with the increased production in AS, that I makeup the costs above HydraCAD typically by the end of January each year. I don't feel comfortable stating the costs of the programs on an open forum, but if you email me, I would share my cost experience with the programs.

However, both programs are excellent and you would be well served by either.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[bksprinkler]

Thanks to you both for your opinions. They are very helpful.

The reason we haven't really considered AS is because of the type of work we do. We do a lot of large scale residential projects. In addition to lots of underground parking garages (which I think would be just fine in AS), we work on apartment/condo buildings. It is not uncommon to have a building with 5-10 different floor plans making up 50-75 units per floor. As such, we need to be able to duplicate the layout of each unit maybe 20 times per floor in various locations and orientations; and the process should be somewhat automated, or the design hours get out of hand pretty quick. Using Autocad and x-refs, the process works pretty well, but I am not sure how it would adapt in a program like AS. Does AS have auotmated functions that would allow me to design in just one unit, and place that same design in the other locations/orientations? What if I need to make a change after I have placed all those units? Can I update one and it will automatically update others? Or will I have to make the same change 50 times?

 

[TravisMack]

You can use XREFS in AS as well. You could design each of your 5-10 different units, then XREF them in the drawing. Then, if you make changes to the unit down the road, the XREF would update. One of the very nice things in AS with xrefs is that you can calc through XREFs. You can't do that in HydraCAD, as far as I know.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[ryano669]

I sounds like you need to at least contact someone at MEPCad to get a demonstration of AutoSPRINK before making your decision. I think a lot of your perceived issues are more of a lack of familiarity with the program. I am sure someone from the sales team would be gald to meet and show you, using one of your jobs as an example, how powerful the program is.

and no, I have no financial interest in AutoSPRINK.

 

[misterJC]

I hope I can help you with my knowledge; i have used Autosprink, hydraCAD and OmniCAD in my engineering Years. AutoSprink beautiful but not has you wish for quick and cheap. Sometimes you have to wait long periods because it is build to be beautiful and not for the speed that an engineer wants. Plotting can take hours depending on your plotter, this due to the fact it is fully 3D and Autosprink has huge blocks. HYdraCAD is very nice, fun in using but it’s Old, not many developments and still to imperial the same with omniCAD. Yes all programs expect Autosprink are autocad based and maybe are getting Revit based, but the developments and interfaces are not what you want at this moment.
Our company is at this moment using SprinkCAD v3.5 for 7 months and the guys just finished their advance class. What i heard it is like windows 7 and autocad MEP 2011. The newest tools, all the benefits of the latest version can be used and even Foam calculations can be made. All handlings can be done in an AutoCAD environment and without switching to another calc or prefab program. Everything is integrated in the SprinkCAD Program. I have never used it but from what I heard it is very nice.

 

[cocchiarale]

I used Sprinkcad since day one for Year up to Sprinkcad Pro in 2002. Today I am in Brazil and looking to buy a new fire protection design software. I have no experience with AutoSPRINK at all, can someone tell me if the number of users of Sprinkcad still leading the industry. I used to work on the East Cost and the number of Hydracad and Sprinkcad was close.
I think the 3D features is good but will be very hard to get everybody on line to coordinate a job on 3D, this was a dream 15 years ago, and will work only if the bid spect will demand.Image the eletrician using 3D, they never put a piece of line in the coordinated drawing, sometime the bus duct.
I need help from you guys that are using this programs everyday, Will be a good choice to get the Sprinkcad or the AutoSprink? Is Sprinkcad still taking a long time to clean the drawings after listing? and about breaking all the pipe at each intersection?

 

[Claytonmiller]

What is the idea program for a company which does only residential fire sprinklers?
I recently joined a residential fire sprinkler company and they are using a combination of autocad and hasshouse.
We draft each house individually and manually count fittings.
Which appears to be severely outdated compared to the other technology which is emerging.

 

[MGXFP]

With residential its easy enough to calc it by hand.

However drafting by hand is a real pain. With HydraCAD they have a nice tool that counts fittings and spits out a .txt file with everything accounted for in a few seconds. Its very handy to have and worth it if you just buy the drafting software it should be included.

 

[TravisMack]

I agree that for residential, you could do calcs by hand if it is a simple tree. Many of the residential I get involved in are looped, so that hand calc, while still not very difficult is a bit time consuming. HydraCAD would work very well for residential system layout. The CPVC list gives a nice, quick list of fittings and piping. The hydracalc program could save you some time over HASS as you could pull pipe lengths and elevations from the drawing, saving a bit of time.

Heck, you could do it with any of the drawing programs. AutoSprink works very well for the residential systems I do, but I don't know if I would buy it for only doing residential systems.

Honestly, if all I did were 13D systems, I would stick with AutoCAD with a few lisp routines and probably get one of the lower cost calc programs. I think you could even write your own calc in MS Excel and make it come out just fine.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com