ST interface is terrible - any band aids?

[gjacc]

I've held out upgrading to Solid Edge ST (v100) until three weeks ago. I am a long time Solidedge use since v11. I'm still using "traditional" modeling so no problem there, but am struggling with the using the new Ribbon (MS Office 2007) interface. I use a 3-button mouse and otherhand on keyboard to quickly change views, save files, etc.

I think the new interface is an abomination and practically speaking it takes me several more button clicks, and keyboard presses to do the same things as v20. And worse yet, the old keyboard shortcuts (that you can still use in MS Office 2007 by the way) do not work at all in ST. Even the MS programmers knew not to change the keyboard shortcuts - why did Solid Edge change this!?!!

Finally, to my question:
1. Is there any way to get all the old keyboard shortcuts (v20) to work in ST? e.g. Can't save a file with Alt>F>S in solid edge ST.

2. Are there any other band aids, or shortcuts to speed things (don't say the Quick Access Toolbar, or ctrl-P to print) up for switching windows, etc? Is there a way to use the old v20 interface?

Thanks for your feedback and for reading my rant!
Greg

 

[KENAT]

There have been a few other threads in the last year or so bemoaning the new ui. Take a look see if they have anything of use.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[gjacc]

1) Yeah. Tried a search on UI, interface, v100, or ST lately for the "UGS: solid edge forum" only? The solid edge forum comes up empty for some reason...

2) All the threads I found are just people talking about how difficult it is - not a reasonable SOLUTION, like having a pre-loadable keyboard shortcut set that mimics prior versions of solid edge. That would be great!

Thanks,
GJ

 

[Gemnoc]

For one thing you can assign different keyboard shortcuts, the same way you did prior to ST. The Customize QAT dialog box has a keyboard tab. It's the same old dialog box SE used to have.

Many of the old keyboard shortcuts are still there.

The Alt key now brings up small letter shortcuts overlayed over the ribbon. It allows you to navigate through the ribbon tabs and commands. I discovered it not long ago, but honestly I can't see how this is faster than the mouse.

Are there any other band aids, or shortcuts to speed things (don't say the Quick Access Toolbar, or ctrl-P to print)

Why? CTRL+P is a standardized Windows shortcut, as well as CTRL+S for saving. Or CTRL+tab to switch between windows. Why would you deny yourself the use of these STANDARD shortcuts, that have been in SE in, like, forever?

Come on, I for one am bitching frequently about the ribbon interface, but at least I'm willing to work with what's already there...

I'm sorry for being rather rude, but you write of looking for a reasonable SOLUTION, well to me you seem rather unreasonable in your demands.

For better or for worse, SE has changed its UI, and it is here to stay. From what I've read, Siemens PLM will only make minor adjustments in ST2 UI. They are not willing to compromise as much as Solidworks has between releases 2008 and 2009 (in SW2009, you can add the old toolbars back).

The only way to get the exact same UI as V20 is to go back to it.

 

[gjacc]

Gemnoc,
Your are mis-interpreting what I'm asking for.
Obviously the standard keyboard shortcuts (cntl+S, P, etc) are fine. BUT have you have ever used MS Office 2007 and previous versions of Office?? If you have will note the BIG differences between it and SolidEdge ST (v100) interface. For previous users of Office, 90% of the keyboard shortcuts function exactly the same as Office 2007 - greatly easing the learning curve.

Some examples in SolidEdge ST:
1. Pressing Cntl+F does nothing in ST. Now you must hit cntl+A, or AB. Pressing Cntl+F shortcut works in MS office just fine.
2. You cannot Hold down Alt+key to switch Ribbon Tabs. In MS office you can.
3. Too many others to name.

So my valid gripe is that Seimens should have made the old keyboard shortcuts function as before just like MS did for Office 2007. Seimens didn't bother.

So, rather than try and think of every single keyboard shortcut - has someone created a file you can apply to Solid Edge v100 that contains all the old v20 keyboard shortcut functionality? That would be a real SOLUTION.

So Gemoc, don't take me out of context next time- I didn't want Cntl+P as a SOLUTION to my question. Duh.

GJ

 

[Gemnoc]

gjacc,

Fair enough. I've been know to misinterpret someone's intentions. Plus, english is not my first language.

Still, I disliked your whole "I want a SOLUTION and I want it NOW because I'm entitled to it" attitude. Sorry, but that's what *still* comes out of reading your three posts.

Nobody is payed here to find SOLUTIONS for you. So if you need a SOLUTION that bad, how about finding it YOURSELF and help others - or PAYING someone to get it done, huh? What a novel idea.

Duh.

 

[beachcomber]

The simple fact is there is no SOLUTION.
The interface is what we now have, so we will just have to get used to it - just as other CAD users will have to get used to their's.
And one benefit I can see is that as Inventor and SoildWorks have similar to SoildEdge, then it could be easier to make the switch between different systems.
By the way, I'm not praising the new interface - I think its crap, and very unproductive for EXISTING users.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.

 

[Schipperus]

GJACC,

i don't know what CTRL+F does in your office, but at my place it starts up 'find and replace'. I can't imagine what you want Solid Edge to do with this command.

As for the ALT-key combinations. They still do the same: They open up the 'Pull-Down'-menu's (which are now the tabs)... Office 2007 has different tab-names than the names of pull-down menu's they had before, so I can't imagine all TAB-key combinations still work... And holding tab does not switch tabs in my office 2007...

As for the new lay-out, I actually like it. I have been working on ST for half a year now, and sometimes when going back to version 20, I can't find the commands anymore. For just about all the commands I think they're out exactly where they're supposed to be.

So for short I have to agree with Gemnoc, wouldn't put it this harsh though. But use the Standard shortcuts (they're faster than the Alt-things too) and get used to the interface. One extra tip: to scroll through the tabs on the ribbon, scroll with your mouse-wheel...

IJsbrand Schipperus

Visualise your vision... in 3D

http://www.Horchner-Hammersma.nl

 

[gjacc]

Beachcomber - Thanks for the reply: eloquent and informative. English must be your first language.

Schipperus - Thanks also for your reply. My previous post I meant Alt+F (versus Alt+A or AB) not Cntl+F as posted. I must disagree that the shortcuts are faster though. Example1: to get to File Properties takes Alt+A+PO+F (was Alt+F+E). Example2: to measure distance takes Alt+I+MD (was Alt+C+D). Example 3: Physical Properties takes Alt+I+P+PP (was Alt+C+P). Everything I can think of doing takes at least 1-2 more key presses than before. The Scroll Wheel trick is a good tip that I was aware of though.

I'm sorry if I sound frustrated, but I am - Seimens wiped the slate clean and made things difficult for formerly fast power users of the software. And I don't see how I can be that fast again unless I create my own interface and shortcuts.
I had hoped that one of the folks on eng-tips had devised something to ease the transition but it doesn't sound like it.

Regards,
GJ

 

[swertel]

I found myself in the same boat. Rather than build a crutch for myself by overly customizing the interface, I accepted the inefficiencies of the learning curve and liberal use of the command finder.

I am glad I did. Although ST2 will be improving on the interface greatly, it will still be FLUENT.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

 

[KENAT]

Fundamentally, Siemans with SE, and I suspect many CAD companies don't really care that much about pleasing existing users.

I think they figure once you have a CAD system, then the pain of changing will keep most customers loyal.

Therefore, many new 'features' are aimed toward attracting new users, even at the expense of existing ones.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[burhop]

I did a blog post a few months ago on "Showing the Ribbon Bar Who is Boss" This may help:

http://siemens.pmhclients.com/index.php/site/comments/showing-the-ribbon-who-is-boss/

Kenat - I think the problem may be more that CAD is software and is thus caught up in that rapidly changing environment. You would see a lot of change if the whole goal was just to keep existing customers. Still, you are right. Every company has to balance keeping its current customers while adding new ones.

Mark (off to go look at Windows 7 - sigh)

P.S. SE ST UI that is mostly graphics

 

[gjacc]

Scott, Kenat, Mark -
Thanks for your input.

Mark, wow, reading your blog may help restore my faith in Solidedge, and was exactly what I was looking for.

I tend to work the same way, with my left hand on the keyboard. Can you help me with a few questions:
1. So, I switch between windows a lot, but I can't find the "switch window" command for this?
2. Is there a way to export QAT / interface settings? and import for other users?
3. More out of curiosity, could you post more of your keyboard shortcuts?

Thanks,
GJ

 

[burhop]

gjacc,

Thanks!

Despite my blog post, I'm not a UI guy. My area is really just Solid Edge Simulation and its likely the other folks here know more than me. Most of my keyboard short cuts are FEA commands which you won't have in your release :-(

The QAT is a long way from perfect in ST and I like what they did in the upcoming ST2 release much better (reorder, group, etc.) It will also keep the settings from previous releases on an upgrade.

I don't know if QAT setting can be copied although I won't be surprised if some clever customer finds a way to do it if we don't officially support it.

Mark

 

[Gemnoc]

1. So, I switch between windows a lot, but I can't find the "switch window" command for this?

CTRL+TAB does that... And I already wrote about it a few messages back.

I still can't understand why you wouldn't use this standard shortcut or others that work in every single Windows app. I, too, work with the left hand on the keyboard (when it's not on my SpaceNavigator). It works well. What other shortcut was there in V20 and prior to switch windows, and why would anyone use anything else than the standard CTRL-tab?

Beachcomber - Thanks for the reply: eloquent and informative. English must be your first language.

What's funny is, if I hadn't mentioned English is not my native language, you would have never known (didn't forget the n this time). How's your French, cher ami?

 

[beachcomber]

GJ,
Wow, I've never been called "eloquent" before.
But, unfortunately, English is my ONLY language.

bc.
2.4GHz Core2 Quad, 4GB RAM,
Quadro FX4600.