Stamp Removal 2

[IAAWVU05]

Is an engineer allowed to remove his stamp on an existing project even though they have been payed for it?

For example if Engineer A works for Firm B, and they are under contract. Engineer A asks the EIT's to do the design it, after which Engineer A checks it and stamps it. Engineer A then quits Firm B. Firm B then replaces Engineer A with Engineer C. Engineer A requests that his stamp be removed and that Firm B cannot use the design, though most of the work was done by EITs in Firm B,the contract is with Firm B, and Firm B payed Engineer A for his work. Is the work the property of Engineer A or Firm B?

 

[LHA]

Firm B owns the design. They can not change what Eng A did, but they can keep using past plans previously stamped. Eng A took responsible charge - or as PA, USA calls it "direct control" - when he/she sealed the EITs' work. I do it all the time.

Signature under construction, sorry about the mess - Steve

 

[IAAWVU05]

What makes the work belong to Firm B? Is it the fact that Engineer A was monitarily compensated for the work? I haven't read the laws, rules and regulations of that particular state, so you'll have to forgive me for my ignorace on the matter.

 

[TheTick]

Why remove your stamp? Just for spite? Surely you did not stamp something that was not worthy of your stamp.

 

[kchayfie]

Its in my contract that my employer owns all my work and all copyrights and so on that may be attached to my work.

As long as the design that you approved and stamped is not changed, I can't imagine any circumstances where you would want your stamp removed. If the EITs change the design, Engineer C should stamp their new work but that doesn't seem like reason to take Engineer A's stamp off the superseded design.

 

[JStephen]

What's done is done, and the stamp should remain on that drawing. If it needs revisions, or is to be used in some way not previously anticipated, then it should be redone and stamped by the (new) responsible party. If the original engineer realizes there's some problem with it, he should notify the company of that problem.

 

[zcp]

What is different now other than Engineer A no longer works there? (Whether he got paid or not is irrelavent) Is Engineer A upset about parting ways? Does Engineer A think he will get calls all day and all night about the project that his new place of employment may not like?

It seems reasonable for Engineer A to ask that someone within the firm take over the project and become EOR if there is substantial work left to be done or changes to be made. But to ask that his stamp be removed from former work because he doesn't work there anymore sounds like trying to get out of responsibility.

ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com

 

[LHA]

I'm in the same boat as kchayfie. I don't work in field where copywrites or patents come into play, but my contract definitely says my firm owns everything I design while there.

Same deal at the firm before that, and the three before that one.

Signature under construction, sorry about the mess - Steve

 

[JamesBarlow]

What would the engineer say if the firm demanded any and all salary and other monies payed to the engineer to be returned.

A drawing with no stamp in many industries is just a piece of paper with a bunch of lines on it. Removing the stamp could make the drawings worthless and I would never pay someone to not do work for me.

No work or drawings, no money.

Pretty simple equation.

 

[l3city]

suppose your are doing your own building, which you pay the big $$bucks$$ for a professional engineer to do the design. After a while, this engineer claims his/her drawings so he can remove his/her stamp. Would allow him/her? I don't think so..
Regards

 

[BJC]

IAAWVU05
You should keep a copy of the drawings you stamped. They can change your design.
The way that should be done is the next engineer clouds the changes he/she made and stamps the drawing with a note that says " this stamp for changes on Rev 1 only" or words to that effect.
However they could just change something on the drawing or verbally OK a change in construction or document it on a RFI. Either way there could be a change you don't know about. It could be trival or something serious.
I would demand a set of record or as-built drawings as well. They should be willing to give those to you. There may be some other drawings or vendor submittals you are entitled to as well. Your stamp is on the drawings and your the one of the ones whom the lawyers would come after.
Your entitled to protect yourself.

 

[IAAWVU05]

This situation arose at work, I am just the EIT in this story (I have about 2-1/2 more years of tutelage to go). From what I see, Engineer A left and a serious bridge was burned between Engineer A and Firm B (lawyers and everything). I had a choice to either go with Engineer A or with Firm B. I chose Firm B because I feel that Engineer A didn't take ethics seriously, and never double checked over my design (I handed the drawings over, and Engineer A just stamps and signs without looking over anything). I am frustrated with the situation because if Engineer A can pull their stamp, it would leave me in a situation where I have to redo all of the drawings on an almost finished project, and inform Engineer C of the project status.

 

[LHA]

IAAWVU05:
Do not worry, Eng A is hosed big-time, you are totally clear. An EIT is supposed to do legwork, including calculations. An EIT is, by definition "In Training".

Signature under construction, sorry about the mess - Steve

 

[JAE]

Engineer A can "pull" the stamp if they want - to do so would probably mean sending a letter to the firm B and to the city or governing jurisdiction stating that they no longer wish to stand behind the design.

[red]But....[/red]

This would then open up Engineer A to [green]legal proceedings[/green] as the drawings then become worthless to the firm B who already paid for them via Engineer A's salary (per JamesBarlow comments above).

It's not that the drawings and stamp "belong" to the firm. The drawings and stamp are simply [purple]instruments of service[/purple] and Engineer A willingly took a salary to provide that service.

By "pulling stamp" Engineer A is effectively stealing the salary that was paid.

 

[TheTick]

It is rare that I will advise someone specifically which side to take and what actions to take.

Stay with "Firm B". Don't worry about "Engineer A". Let "Firm B" worry about "Engineer A".

If you are asked to redo your work, be a good soldier and do it. This won't be the first time your work is lost or undone. Accept it.

Remember that you are not responsible for Enginer A's actions. If anything, he was responsible for yours on behalf of Firm B. Firm B signs your paychecks. It is Firm B's responsbility to see that you are properly managed and trained.

 

[dik]

The seal should remain intact and no revisions permitted to the document without the removal of said seal... and a letter to Firm B to this effect... I'm not so sure about any fabrication or construction review or QA. Firm B should still be liable for any insurance claims. You might ask Firm B for some assurance on this...

Dik

 

[EddyC]

A stamp should only be pulled if there is a deficiency in the design that was discovered later, that no one wishes to address. It should not be pulled because of a business disagreement that has nothing to do the quality of the design. Pulling a stamp arbitarily would probably get you in trouble, both in court and in front of the state licensing board.

 

[Ashereng]

Under most contracts (employment, consulting, etc.), the work belongs to who pays for it - afterall, that is the reasone why we work.

To pull a stamp, that is usually reserved for mistakes discovered after the fact, not employment and bridge burning issues.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[whyun]

Verify with the authority having jurisdiction whether they have a form for change in delegation of responsibility in which you specify the effective date of the transfer of responsibility.

Each jurisdiction may have different rules but generally, if engineer A stamped a set of drawings that has been permitted by AHJ, engineer A's stamp "remains" with the plans. Engineer B, one the responsibility is delegated to, is responsible for all subsequent work involving modifications to the original permit set.

If the delegation is made prior to permit, engineer B shall review all previous design done under engineer A and put his stamp. Engineer A is not "recorded" as the engineer of record by the AHJ.

The above apply to standard AEC projects involving buildings/public works. I would check with the AHJ on how to proceed.

 

[IAAWVU05]

I just checked with the AHJ. Since it is a public document, Engineer A cannot legally pull stamp, which brings up another question. I did the design, and Engineer A stamped without looking over. If a design flaw occurs, can Engineer A hold me responsible? Just a little concerned about this.