Stamping of other Disciplines 3

[jike]

Is a PE in one discipline allowed to stamp and certify drawings of another discipline (in the same firm)? How much review or supervision of the other disciplines is required to do this? Many years ago, this was common practice. Has this changed?

Often, a PE is not normally an expert in more than one discipline, although I have met engineers who know alot about two related disciplines such as Building HVAC and Plumbing.

 

[ICman]

You cannot legally or ethically stamp or sign documents in a discipline in which you are not competitent. Some jurisdictions restrict you to the discipline listed on your PE certificate. If you want to sign in others, you pay extra and take exams.

Other jurisdictions do not specify ib which engineering discipline you must practice. They leave it up to you to decide what you're competent in.

The amount of supervision required is subjective. I think it boils down to your decision: Do you feel confident that the design is correct? Are you sure enough that you are willing to risk your career, income, and savings on that signature?

Never stamp/sign anything that you have not supervised, reviewed, checked, and/or otherwise positively confirmed that it is correct. Do not let anyone pressure you into it, either (I made that mistake once). It's not their life you're risking.

. . . Steve

 

[hydrae]

Jike

There is one specific area that has limits on the stamping of designs outside of the certificate. Structural, most states have a separate structual test and requirements that when passed requires an ammended stamp. Each state will then also have specific items that require a structural engineer to stamp. The list include items like large hospitals, emergency operation centers, hazardous facilities, and tall structures (over 4 stories).

My degree and license are mechanical but my designs include the civil (including small structures not in the above list), mechanical, instrumentation, and electrical. My expertise is in drinking water but by being compentent (not expert) in all the areas provides one source for the project.

Hydrae

 

[ICman]

Hydrae is correct, in that Structural is often considered separately. A PE cannot sign/stamp surveys, either, unless he/she is a certified Land Surveyor.

BTW, I used the word "competent" on purpose. In grading exams for the NCEES, they stressed that we were looking for "competent" engineers - they did not need to be experts (few, if any, are), but should know what they're doing.

Many engineers have a tendency to learn a lot while working in a "non-native" discipline; so much so that they become competent in that discipline. When I've been in that situation, I will sign/stamp the work I did (assuming it's legal, of course ).

 

[jike]

Are Architects allowed to certify other engineering disciplines without being competent in those disciplines?

 

[EddyC]

Generally an PE is allowed to take on and personally stamp projects that are multi-disciplinary as long as the work areas in which he/she is not competent are performed by a competent associate or employee. Of course you should check with the particular state in question, as rules do vary somewhat.

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

Hi EddyC,

I can't believe what you say is true. In Canada, this essentially is professional misconduct. It also opens one up to the very real possibility of negligence.

I would be very leary of anything associated with this type of stamping.

Regards

VOD

 

[stevenal]

From NSPE (

http://www.nspe.org/ethics/eh1-code.asp):

2. Engineers shall perform services only in the areas of their competence.

a. Engineers shall undertake assignments only when qualified by education or experience in the specific technical fields involved.

b. Engineers shall not affix their signatures to any plans or documents dealing with subject matter in which they lack competence, nor to any plan or document not prepared under their direction and control.

c. Engineers may accept assignments and assume responsibility for coordination of an entire project and sign and seal the engineering documents for the entire project, provided that each technical segment is signed and sealed only by the qualified engineers who prepared the segment.

 

[EddyC]

Folks,

Take a look at Delaware's rules, as an example. Go to

http://www.dape.org,

click on "Code Of Ethics", scroll down to #2, letter B. But as I stated earlier, the rules can and probably do vary by state. Please note that the NSPE code of ethics has no jurisdiction in these types of matters.

 

[stevenal]

Instead of posting laws from 50 states and Canada, I thought that the NSPE code might be a good example which deals with the question thoroughly. Pretty much word for word the same as the NCEES example code. I'm sure that any or all of these codes would come up in a civil case, especially if the engineer in question was a member.

 

[ASG1960]

Who knows which States require separate mechanical and electrical Engineers to sign the MEP work?

 

[BML]

jike, in response to your question, my brother-in-law is an architect intern in Iowa. In that state, both architects and structural engineers are allowed to design buildings up to a certain size. After that point, the architect can only sign for architectural items, and the engineer can only sign for the structural items.

 

[VoyageofDiscovery]

Hi BML,

That's another situation we structural engineers cannot figure out, but their associations have lobbied on their behalf. Good for them I guess, however does this really protect the public?

VOD

 

[haggis]

This is a very interesting subject but I really don't hink there are many Engineers out there who would seal drawings or documents in an area outside of thier expertise unless thier ego was so big that it clouded thier judgement as to the consequences that could ensue.

Engineering is an honorable profession where sometimes common sense must prevail over degree of knowledge.

Even if allowed, would a dermatoligist perform or supervise a heart transplant.

Haggis