Stamping structural portion of architectural drawings 2

[Said the Sky]

Hello,

I've been asked to review and stamp the structural drawings portion of an architectural drawing package, it was requested from a architectural design firm for custom homes, in our jurisdiction architects are allowed to design structural elements provided they have the expertise, and anything they don't have confidence in they will sub it out to a structural engineer,

I think this seems OK but my stamp will be on his drawings and company logo. I will review the drawings and markup the changes I want to see and then once I'm confortable with it I will stamp it, I suspect hes trying to save on drafting fees.

what do you guys think of all this,

TIA

 

[phamENG]

My MO for this sort of thing is to provide a letter stating precisely what I approve of. This is influenced by two things:

1) If there is enough structural content to warrant S sheets, I should be producing them. So that means there's a good chance I'm stamping something that isn't structural.

2) In my jurisdiction, it's a violation of the regulations to stamp any work product that was not produced by me, an employee of the firm I work for/own, or a contractor hired by the firm I work for/own.

 

[Said the Sky]

thanks Pham, I will have to look closer at all the regulations here

 

[BrentG]

We have often done similar things in Alberta, especially on Part 4 elements of Part 9 buildings, with drawings prepared by others. We ensure that our contact information is placed on the drawing - as well as our file number - to be in accordance with our PPMP. You could also have them put your logo and/or website on the drawing.

 

[Said the Sky]

thats good to know Brent, I did reach out to our regulator and they said it is OK, provided you are clear what your scope is.

 

[IRstuff]

While the regulator might accept it; it would still seem to be contrary to "responsible charge"

In the end, are you getting paid sufficiently enough to cover the insurance for potential liability, since once you stamp something, you assume at least some of the liability.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[Said the Sky]

IRstuff, I agree I would have preferred to do the drawings myself and get paid a larger fee, these are my one-off projects with this specific architect, I wouldn't do this on a consistent basis.

 

[JAE]

No idea what your jurisdictional laws are but I would do the following:
1. Very carefully review the designs fully - as though I was the original designer. Essentially everything I would have done from the start.
2. Be sure to review the limited structural items in context with any larger, surrounding elements, effects, or aspects of the design. (i.e. put the items in their global context).
3. Write the letter/memo/email to your client per what phamENG states above. Outline what is included in your review and what is also NOT included.
4. Include general notes on the plans outlining all loads, codes, assumptions, etc.
5. Include with your stamp your company's logo. To me this ensures that the design is by your company with you as its agent. (vs. you acting as a moonlighting engineer). Helps ensure that your firm's insurance is connected to your efforts.
6. Insist in your letter/communications that your architect will involve you in any decisions, alterations, issues found during construction.

 

[AgMechEngr]

I arrange my fee for a review to be practically equal to design (the time I spend is the same minus drafting). Reviewing designs involves more risk than a full design, so I expect to be compensated for that risk. I may lose jobs this way, but I do not want to be known as a stamp for hire. I personally do not want clients that are just looking for a seal.

JAE's list is very good. Make sure you are compensated for your time.

 

[Said the Sky]

thanks all i appreciate the input!

 

[gte447f]

phamEng, you say that you provide a letter, but that seems to be a contradiction to your point #2.
What am I missing?

Said the Sky, I have encountered this request before. I agree with you that the architect's motivation seems to be saving money on your fee for drafting, but I also think they assume checking is less involved than designing, so they expect a discount there too. However, I think checking is only less involved than designing if the design was performed under the checker's responsible charge (e.g., by your employee). If the design was performed by an unqualified person not under your responsible charge, then checking will be MORE involved than designing from the start. That seems to be the case here, since you said the Architect would be allowed to sign his own design of the structural elements if he had the expertise to perform the design. It's like these guys want to have their cake and eat it too. It's like they are saying, "Trust me, I know what I am doing, so I can do the work. I just need you to make sure it's all right and take responsibility for everything."

Anyway, my current stance on this issue is all or nothing. I will not stamp someone else's design or drawings. If the fee is that tight, it is likely not worth it for me anyway.

 

[IRstuff]

I also think they assume checking is less involved than designing,

It should be less that designing AND producing drawings AND the initial preliminary design, maybe not by much...

The architect has a point design, so design any alternatives are off the table, barring inadequate design and no drawings, so costing of the core portion of the engineering/design sounds plausible to me.

If your engineering and analysis comes out the same as the architects, then isn't that validation of their design? So, any costing short of that would be underpricing and not being adequately compensated for the time, effort, and liability.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[phamENG]

gte- the idea is that the letter is my work product. I don't put my seal on their drawing, I put my seal on the letter I wrote.

I don't like doing it, but for really good clients that have the oddball small project or they're slow and need to keep their CAD folks busy, I'll do it occasionally. New or occasional clients? No thanks.

 

[gte447f]

phamENG, got it. That makes sense. I assume the Arch then puts his stamp on the actual construction drawing, since the AHJ is going to want to see a stamp on the actual drawing?

 

[XR250]

I typically do not do this but many Engineer's in my locale do.
Usually, they just put a note below their seal saying "Structural Only"