Standard Color for indicator lights 10

[wfmoore]

I am looking for an available standard that provides guidance for using indicator lights.

The confusion is that in the Power Industry "Red" is traditionally used to indicate running.

In my manufacturing experience, "Green" is used for running. This is derived I believe from the old "JIC" standard that is no longer supported. Is there an industry standard that specifies or recommends a position

Thanks

William F. Moore

 

[pennpoint]

peebee:
Sorry if I continue to confuse you and others. I reread my post and see where someone could be further confused. It was somehow clear to me when I posted. Its the nuance thats lacking here, and without immediate responce and play the subject at hand suffers.

Ill differ to wiser people

pennpoint

 

[RajT]

I think we should close this thread!

 

[jraef]

I agree. Lets put up a red light icon to show that it is closed...

Or would it be an amber light?

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[panelman]

red, green, amber or

 

[jbartos]

Suggestion: It appears that vfmoore, original posting, his/her last posting indicated that "Now I am as confused now as when I started this quest." The NFPA standards/codes were addressed. If there are any ambiguities in NFPA Codes/Standards, then they can be submitted to NFPA for interpretations. vfmoore might keep the Forum posted.

 

[shipelec]

Sorry for jumping in so late here, I just joined. Navy uses green for motor running, blue and yellow for circuit breaker open or closed.

ASTM F 1166 section 9.19 has color coding for indicator lights.

I'm looking at a picture of a ship's control console and the only red lights are alarm lights and emergency stop buttons. If there is an illuminated "stop" button (for a pump) or "close" button (for a valve) it is white.

 

[RobWard]

The navy also has control rooms that need to operate in low light conditions, i.e. red illumination. Red lights then don't show up as well and can be mistaken for reflections of the luminaires....

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams

 

[jbartos]

Suggestion: Visit

http://www.harrob.com/images/Durhamville Spec.pdf

for a green light meaning energized

 

[cerpico]

Most of my working life has been in the electrical power industry. From Fossil fuel powered plants including gas turbines as well as Nuclear Plant Control rooms. I have always known RED as 'energized', 'running', 'on', and 'open ( when referring to valves)' Green the opposite of all the above. I suppose it depends on what industry you are working in. This was our standard.

 

[buzzp]

Obviously colors are determined by the industry, at least in the US. At our hydro plant Red means energized and green means not energized. As I said before, the oil field equipment it was the opposite.

 

[cerpico]

On 5/6 pennpoint gave opinion on stutus lights. It is interesting to note the differring thoughts on this between an electrical engineer and a mechanical and a X Navy person. What you all need to do is take the engineer mentality out of your thought process and consider the human factors. You cannot have Green as both "ready for start" and "running". This is a contradiction. Accepted standard for a closed or energized breaker is RED. If the pump associated with this energized breaker is running( as it should be) then it too should be 'red'. So than should the valves associated with the system to which the pump serves. It was very helpful whenever a nuclear plant trip occured to look over the board and see a system as either all red or all green ("sea of green&quot. If automatic actions required a system to be running you knew very quickly if it was not. I do not mean to be contrary but Pennpoints' logic is not logical at all. Under stress you want all apples or all limes but not a mixture of both. RED demands your attention, it implies that certain dynamics are involved. Green implys "safe". You'll never get a ticket for running a green light. The NAVY uses differing colors than that of the commercial industries for one reason. When a ship goes to 'battle ready conditions' the battle room and con overhead lighting goes to red. This makes red indicating lamps not practical. Another human factors consideration. So lets keep the navy seperate as their needs are such.

 

[illiterate]

Most of my working life has been in the United Kingdom electrical Steel / Utilities industries. I have always known RED as 'Running'and Green as 'Stopped'. Has someone else said before i have "never" seen a green Emergency Stop Pushbutton.

 

[Bigginhk]

This is certainly a contentious point. Industries dont even standardise. Try the water industry where different neighbouring authorities/companies use different standards.

Can't a physical switch be used? However, people would then argue whether it was up/down or left/right.

Why not have the text on the lamp i.e. RUN/STOP/FAIL and then you dont have to worry about colours, just dyslexic operators.

 

[RavenJoe]

I can assure you that in the power industry it is as follows:
Red-running
Green-available,off,standby
Yellow-disagreement,failed to move or start
White-lockout


Ravenjoe

 

[jbartos]

Suggestion: Visit

http://www.pauldavisautomation.com/safetyman.html

for:
There is no specific standard in the U.S. regarding stack lights. However, ANSI under B11.19 section E4.3.2.2.1 states "Due to lamp failure, visual awareness devices should use multiple lamps such as green for run and red for unsafe." What the exact meaning is of those colors on a stack light should be part of the documented operator and maintenance personnel training for that machine.

 

[pennpoint]

cerpico et al;
Back tracking and reading my input over again I find myself in a defensive position here. My point is and has always been GREEN means GO, RED means STOP/WARNING (or an indication why the machine stopped).
The company to which I am employed, design and build verious testing facilities. Not process equipment. These are usually small sized (up to 4000lbs) equipments most are simi-portable. Not paper mills, mill hammers, steel mills, or etc..
My point was and continues to be: Indication of operation should give the operator some since of the degree of safety.
That is to say if you use RED indicator lights to show that the machine and all it's sub-circuits are operating normal you are giving that operator a false warning indication. If you do this, I believe this is old school philosophy.
//It appears most (not all) everyone this thread agrees that RED is STOP/WARNING\OSHA has lists of colors to be used as levels of HAZARDS:
Green: Safe
Orange: WARNING
Red: DANGER
Blue: INFORMATIONAL
others:
I use GREEN as a Start button. Red as a STOP button. (normally neither are illuminated). There may be a "HEAT", "COOL", "HUMIDIFY" or more switch(es). Those functions when "ON" would be shown energized with a AMBER indicator. Amber because it can be seen and are not a hazard when functioning or not. They are just to let the operator know that they or working (fuctional/cycled) to the process. You could tell me to use green and I would.
Auto-Shut down; Here, I use RED again only as an indicator to the operator as to: "LOOK" the machine stopped (automatically) approach with caution, find out why. Call your supervisor. The machine can be stopped by "E" stop, temperature, pressure or other harmful limits to its self or to personnel.
In my instance when I say the machine is "OFF" it's off (no auto restart). Only the temperature displays and chart recorder is energized to show the operator where things are or were in the process when it went down.

Cerpico; You yourself elude to the premis Green is GO, RED is stop.
I am saying the samething!!
I guess it comes down to this. If the machine is operating as it is designed, is safe or not. I say yes! and there should be no RED indicator lights lit if all is operating normal. If I approched a machine and pressed the "START" button and the panel lit up RED! I'd run like hell to get out of there. Ya see..
In the "ole" days, (Hey I'm an old guy), I remember the large red bullet nosed indicator panel lights. But these were on open frame, uncaged, unshrouded systems. Workers had to approach these machines with fear in their hearts.
When you start your car there should be no red light showing on the dash, or you'll be calling AAA.
We as a "modern" industrialized nation of standards have come far and away from that. Just because a piece of equipment is "ON" does not mean it's unsafe, nor should we as engineers do what was done fifty years ago.
I see no flaw in this logic, as you seem to do. I do see lack in the communicaton of our thoughts. Maybe your not totally wrong and maybe Iam not totally right, but I think we can meet somewhere in between.

I hope this clears up any confusion from what I have posted in the past. This is my philosophy.
What is obvious here is that there is no real clear standard (now) that we ALL can follow except that we all must try to do the very best we can to address, protect and annunciate the safe operational status to those operators of our individual equipments.

Iam still worried about my coffee maker, is that really a warning light or not?

I wish you all well
pennpoint

 

[RobWard]

It's probably wise to remember that the way you've been trained is not necessarily the way other people would think.
Show Joe Average in the street a box with a red button and a green button and ask him which is start and which is stop.
My guess is that most people will go green for go, red for stop.

Same with indicator lamps.

If you are happy that the people who come into contact with the indicator lamp will be educated to know what it means, then fair enough, but if I build a machine here and give it to the workforce then I'd always go for green is go, red is stopped. And I'm a trained electrician so I know that in that trade we use red for on green for isolated...

I though us "engineers" were supposed to be logical!

Alternatively why not throw a spanner in the works and do like Disaster Area's stunt ship:

Zaphod Beeblebrox: "It's weird. Every time I operate one of these weird black controls, that are labelled in black, on a black background, a little black light lights up black to let me know I've done it."

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams

 

[jbartos]

Suggestion: It appears that the international standards harmonization will resolve this green versus red dilemma.

 

[peebee]

Yeah, that's what they said about the metric system too.

 

[killemall]

I have seen and programmed SCADA both RED as running/Open and Green as Running/Open.

I must say, RED as Energised, which is supposed to be the international standard, is very confusing to both myself and the operators.

A stop button is always RED. Not to warn you away from it, but to mean STOP. RED means STOP, no matter what the international standards say. It is convention. It is in our culture, everyone knows it. To try and confuse this is wrong.

For the same reason, Start buttons are Always Green. By the international standar, shouldn't it be RED, to warn you that if you press it it will cause a dangerous situation.
NO, because that would confuse people.


This is why there is no standard that everyone uses. Because the internation standard conflicts with what everybody knows to be "The Right Way" to do it.

In the end, the customer gets what they want, but if it is my choice, I will say stuff the international standard. It is clearly wrong. It is more important to convey a message that everone understands, Not try to make everyone understand a backward standard.

Thats my opinion, and I will stick with it.