Starliner FINALLY made it to orbit with a crew 3

[WKTaylor]

Mission well underway... and in-orbit checkouts on-going[ul]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSp5bcV0SVI

Live streaming is enabled... but a bit boring. should dock with the ISS tomorrow.

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation, Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", HBA forum]
o Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand everything." -Anton Chekhov

 

[thebard3]

Good news for Boeing, maybe. In the time since they were awarded contracts, I'm sure they've been re-thinking their interest in this project. This has cost Boeing billions.
If memory serves, I believe they are bound by contract to perform 2 manned missions. Those were defined deliverables and NASA is holding them to it. Once that's done, and as Crew Dragon is performing so well, both parties may just decide to cut and run.
BTW- There are now 3 different crew capsules, including Lockheed Martin's Artemis capsule. Does anyone know why it is not part of the discussion for missions to the space station?

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[WKTaylor]

tb3...

Reminder about 'why' the Starliner is definitely different than the SpaceX Crew Dragon (although it didn't start that way)...

It appears that Starliner was designed for up-to a 7 crewmember capacity... what a squeeze that will be...

Also... Starliner crew capsule will land like Blue Origin: on-land with parachutes and airbags on open terrain... presumably for quick turn re-usability, without ocean-recovery and ocean-water contamination to contend with.

SpaceX was unable to confidently develop a 100% retro rocket landing system... or parachutes/retro-rocket system [like Soyuz]... for soft landing on open terrain. Hence Crew Dragon is only capable of landing on the ocean.

-----
BTW... You made an interesting statement that leads to an interesting observation of my simple brain... I think...

The Orion crew capsule made by Lockheed with elements from Boeing is behind schedule... with the excessive heat-shield re-entry erosion, during the Aretmis 1 Mission, as a significant [#1?] concern to NASA... among other elements.

The Artemis core booster 'SLS'... made by Boeing... re-using Space Shuttle SRBs... didn't appear to have had any significant operational concern(s) to NASA that I'm aware of.

I guess that Boeing, being the Artemis system integrator, has the visible burden/responsibility for program success... hence lion's share of criticism(?).



Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation, Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", HBA forum]
o Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand everything." -Anton Chekhov

 

[thebard3]

Wil-
All good points. I really didn't know all of the differences but when I think about it, it makes sense that Orion is designed for missions to the moon so the re-entry profile would be completely different, as would the crew support capabilities and probably a lot of other stuff that's way too much to talk about here.
I think that right now, Boeing deserves all the criticism they get, even if it's not earned. Hopefully they'll get the rudder headed back in the right direction soon.
They're like the Cleveland Indians (Guardians). They were terrible until the 'Major League' movie embarrassed them into being good.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[thebard3]

Less than the perfect performance that we were hoping for. Issues with multiple thrusters arose again, and new helium leaks occurred apparently during launch. They were able to reach the space station but it's not known if the new helium leaks will hasten departure. Boeing still hasn't figured this thing out. I'm sure there are lots of nervous people at Boeing and NASA right now.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[thebard3]

It's looking less likely that anyone will be inside the Starliner on reentry. Return keeps getting pushed back to allow more time for testing (I'd call it troubleshooting).

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[rb1957]

listening to the tale of woe tonight I thought ... "why doesn't the FAA have oversight of the launch ?" if because NASA is the customer, well, that's a conflict of interest, no?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[thebard3]

I'm thinking now that this thread belongs in the 'Engineering Failures...' forum

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[WKTaylor]

Starliner 'situation' is NO gloom-N-doom 'marooned scenario' as being reported by the uninformed and wanna-be-experts...

The 2 Starliner crewmen are highly experience NASA astronauts on a test mission for NASA... at the ISS where they have spent many hours/days prior to this mission... that their/NASA's schedule is flexible. OH, YEAH... the Starliner really is in 'flight-worthy condition'.

I suspect that NASA is checking out Starliner's potential for ISS attitude control and altitude boosting, also.

Mission Updates...

https://starlinerupdates.com/

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation, Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", HBA forum]
o Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand everything." -Anton Chekhov

 

[WKTaylor]

No, Boeing Starliner's NASA astronauts are not stranded in space. Here's why. --Elizabeth Howell published 18 hours ago

The supposedly 10-day mission is now nearing 2 months in space — for a good reason.

https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-nasa-astronauts-not-stranded-space

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation, Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", HBA forum]
o Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand everything." -Anton Chekhov

 

[thebard3]

I pretty much don't believe anything about these releases, other than the few technical details discussed. Boeing has been reticent of late regarding all kinds of problems with different programs. I'm not sure how they couldn't have noticed the problem with the 'doghouse' temperatures and seals during 2 previous test flights.
This flight is WAY outside of the original flight plan. There was no contingency in place for the flight to stay so long. The fact that NASA had foresight to have supplies on-hand to support such an unforeseen circumstance was just serendipity and not part of the plan in any way.
At this point I will be very surprised if the crew returns on Starliner. If they don't, NASA and Boeing will each be looking for a plausible scenario to save face.
I've withheld my judgement about whether this whole project is an engineering failure. It's not an engineering disaster unless something happens to the crew. It's certainly been a financial disaster for Boeing. They are on the hook to deliver 5 more crewed flights. If those don't happen, I don't know what their financial obligation will be. It's just another black eye for a company that was once one of the best in the world.
Boeing just hired a new CEO. If he's the panacea that they need, it will still take years for them to work out the bugs. Bad management has momentum.

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[thebard3]

NOT stranded in space.

https://defector.com/do-not-say-the...rn-from-due-to-problems-with-their-spacecraft

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[Brian Malone]

To me, the Defector article reads as a fluff piece - full of buzzwords, opinion and sarcasm. Since when has sarcasm, comedic asides become necessary to discuss a technical item? This guy's blog gets attention and drives traffic to the site, but really has little else.

 

[thebard3]

Time will tell which of the articles provides the best summary of the mission.

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[Sparweb]

Thebard3,
It will be a 'Failure' if it is eventually jettisoned as junk, or loses control, or burns up on re-entry. The Starliner can be returned to Earth automatically, and I expect that's how it will go, no matter how sincerely Boeing says it's OK for humans.

It won't be a 'Disaster' as long as Suni and Butch don't get back into it. I think the two of them have already made up their minds about returning in Starliner - even if they haven't said anything about it in public, yet. NASA is already setting the stage for an about-face:

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/...ng-starliners-astronauts-back-on-crew-dragon/

PS. I think you'll find ARS reporting on space flight and technology a bit less snide than Defector. They even resisted the temptation to sarcasm during the Crowdstrike shut-down last month, despite the glaring ironies.

 

[thebard3]

The issues aren't any where near being resolved. A stunning revelation discussed on ARSTechnica-
"Three separate, well-placed sources have confirmed to Ars that the current flight software on board Starliner cannot perform an automated undocking from the space station and entry into Earth’s atmosphere".
Link

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[LittleInch]

Well you can understand that a bit.

You don't want the starliner undocking when it is attached to the SS without warning or just as they are boarding it. Better to disable or delete the possibility or need some sort of manual "doors to automatic" type switch.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[thebard3]

The last starliner flight was unmanned

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[thebard3]

After today's announcements, by my definition, astronauts are 'stranded'.

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[racookpe1978]

14 August 2024 (Update only)

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4258080/posts

Article title: Another Boeing Blunder: NASA Worries that Starliner May Damage ISS Docking Port