Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

Register Log in

Starter fuels for a diesel engine

Status
Not open for further replies.
Batista230

Batista230

Civil/Environmental
Dec 11, 2010
15
0
0
GB

Hi
I have a 2.5L DI engine that Im running on heavy oil
The engine will run fine all day long on the oil however on cold start up she is not so keen to compress

I have tried lighting a rag in front of the air inlet manifold while the engine is being cranked so as to let hot air in the cylinders but to little effect

I bought a cheap bottle of cleaning fluid of something from the supermarket and filled it with petrol
the petrol started the engine OK however after a day the petrol has started to eat/ melt the rubber seals in the bottle and the bottle has started to shrink
Can I get a squirty bottle from somewhere that is petrol resistant?

I have a can of easy start but have not used this for years now as I know it dose serious damage to the engine
(or as some would say the engine becomes addictive)

Someone told me that carb cleaner is less volatile then easy start but Im not quite so sure
The same person also told me that a cheap can of body deodorant would be as good as carb cleaner
When I pointed out to him that the body deodorant would most probably have no lubricants in it he agreed with me
I know the easy start and carb cleaner will have lubricants in them
But I also know that the easy start is bad for the engine too
I dont think they call it easy start in America but the can say Diethyl ether
it has no other ingredients written on the tin

the can of body spay I bought today says on the can
ingredients: butane. propane. isobutain. cycolmethiccone. aluminium chlorohyydrate. isopropyl myristant. parum. disteardimonium hectorite. limonere. carvine. leaf extract. propylene carbonate. anethole. eucalyptol. limonene. carvone . leaf extract. propylene carbonate.. tetamethyl acetyloctahydroaphthalenes. hexyl salicylate. linalool

I know spraying any fuel into the air inlet manifold of a diesel engine will do it damage as the combustion is not happening top dead centre of the piston it is exploding where the fuel has been injected into it thus at the sides/ walls of the piston creating a knocking effect
But I need a fuel that is volatile to a minimum and will still start the engine


PS I tried WD 40 a long time ago but it did not work so well
More like I had to flood the cylinders with it to get it to start
 
Replies continue below

Recommended for you

Sort by date Sort by votes
what is the engine being used for? for stationary use w/HFO I would think you'd want to heat the fuel, heat the inlet air (electric heaters are common) and possibly heat the coolant or oil (again electric).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
If you can't arrange to start a hot engine with hot air and hot fuel, the diethyl ether seems to be the next best thing. ... call it the least awful if you like.

In my limited experience with it, just the briefest squirt into the priming up on a truck Diesel engine's air filter was enough to make the engine start immediately, in the vicinity of -20 degrees F. ... after the battery was just about dead repeated unsuccessful start attempts.

It's not like you have a warranty to protect, right?




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I'm with Isaac re heating things.

How you go about it depends on circumstances. Is this your equipment in your home or workshop or is it a corporate owned thing.

Purpose designed electric heaters might be best with corporate, especially if it's more than one unit and ongoing and needs to be started by less creative people or different people.

If it's yours, you can do something bush mechanic style. I think the USAans call it gheto style.

Heat up the fuel by an electric element in the supply line or by tipping hot water over the lines and rails or even heating the tank with an electric heating element.

Heat up the block/head/manifold/coolant/fuel tank maybe by blowing hot air from a hot air blower type room heater over it.

Maybe drain and heat coolant on a stove or gas ring.

Aim a hot air blower down the intake as you crank. Maybe a paint stripper hot air gun.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
As IMike has asked, what is the vehicle application - - furthermore, what are it's operating conditions and the source & composition of this "heavy oil"?

If discarded cooking oil for instance - - reduced fuel costs will be more than offset by inferior engine durability due to premature component wear, to say nothing of the potential for mechanical failure at an inconvenient, even dangerous time, plus increased exhaust emissions

Given your "Civil/Environmental" title, is the latter a concern?



Tekton
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
If the fuel system had two tanks with different grades of fuel and a 3 way valve on the fuel feed lines, you could start on an easy start diesel fuel then switch tanks to the cheap and nasty fuel. That would introduce all fuel directly into the chamber at the correct time for ignition.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Wouldn't you have a chance of some more specific responses by adding some more info?

For example:

What do you call a 'cold start'? 32f, -20f, something else?
What is your 'heavy oil' compared to ordinary commercial vehicle fuel oil?
What is the engine? What make?
How old is it?

Bill
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I like patp's answer- My Dad ran an old Model A during WW11 on cleaning fluid (his buddy's dad owned a dry cleaner) after starting on regular gas!!!

Worked OK!!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Harry

That is basically Aero start or ether.

It is very volatile so it works in the cold, but being introduced into the manifold it ignites to early and can damage an engine as the piston moves up against the rapid expansion caused by the early ignition. Kinda like having 60 deg ignition advance in your petrol engined car.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
All the popular american diesel engine manufactures offered an ether starting system for their engines in past years.
I spent many years wrenching on and operating machines with diesel engines. I have started many with the good old can of ether starting fluid. If done properly it works just fine. If it is done by someone that has no idea how to properly use it, then it can cause problems.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
For what it is worth, I agree with Mike Halloran that the Diethyl Ether is an effective starting fluid if used very carefully and sparingly.

DiMethyl Ether (DME) is slightly more volatile and will work even better on the really cold days. Again, use sparingly or you will lose the cylinder head.

DME has been investigated by a number of engine manufacturers as a fuel because it has a high cetane number and burns in a compression ignition engine without any soot.

Dick

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Dont what to go into the rest of the threads as I think I have made it clear from my first post

When I had nothing else available, I once used propane to crank a cold diesel.
Do you know what the octane level of propane and butane are?

DME has been investigated by a number of engine manufacturers as a fuel because it has a high cetane number and burns in a compression ignition engine without any soot.
What is DME?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
A trick we use in the Northeast when cold-starting diesels is quite simple and has worked every time. Go to your plumbing store and buy a roll of heating element tape used to keep plummeting from freezing. Wrap each injector and about 3 inches of the fuel line supplying the injector. Without cutting the tape jump across to your next injector beginning with wrapping the line working toward the injector, once you reach the end of the injector jump across to the next and repeat in this fashion. We are talking about 110 AC voltage and we plug them in approximately 1hour (on a timer for convenience) before starting the diesels. Give that a try we have also used, believe it or not, Steno cans under the oil pan during extremes 45 below temperatures...
If these fail, a compression test may reveal a ring, valve and/or cylinder issue.

Hope this helps…. Good luck!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Octane numbers for propane and butane:
RON MON (RON + MON)/2
Propane: 112 97 104.5

iso-butane 102 98 100

n-butane 94 90 92


Source: Zabetakis, M. “Flammability Characteristics of Combustible Gases and Vapors.” Bureau of Mines Bulletin 627, 1965.

j2bprometheus

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Correctly calibrated Ether Assisted Start can & will start a CR DI Diesel engine to temps lower than the lowest recorded ambient on Earth - However, as Pat correctly points out the scope for damage on an incorrectly calibrated start is pretty spectacular.

However, if it were my engine I would try and start it on regular biodiesel and then switch to the Heavy Oil.

Prometheus, Octane Number/Index is not relevant to a CI Engine.

MS

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gbawn
  • Locked
  • Question
Diesel Engine Ratings.
Replies
5
Views
19
LittleInch
LittleInch
Redcobra2401
  • Locked
  • Question
Side valve diesel engine 4
2
Replies
26
Views
39
Redcobra2401
Redcobra2401
Singhnishesh
  • Locked
  • Question
Diesel Engine Fuel Consumption 3
Replies
15
Views
33
GregLocock
GregLocock
WarriorofGondolin
  • Locked
  • Question
Diesel Engine 12 Cylinder V
Replies
1
Views
8
TugboatEng
TugboatEng
ilovepoop
  • Locked
  • Question
Minimal Oxygen Content in Diesel Exhaust
Replies
7
Views
27
GregLocock
GregLocock
Back
Top