Starting a Business on the Side - Using a Website 8

[Slugger926]

Does one pick up much business via setting up a Website?

Or is there another way to start picking up small projects on the side that would work better?

 

[mrMikee]

That's an interesting question. I found with my website that it has not brought in business from anyone that I not already contacted. My site was designed by my daughter who does websites professionally, and she warned me not to expect that much from a website alone. I have however received a good response to mailings and other contacts, and I think my website as an additional resource has helped get work.

If you want to spend the time I recommend you put up a website. Use it to describe your experience and the type of work you are looking for. I also suggest you take the time to browse websites of similar consultants to get an idea of what they look like.

Regards,
-Mike

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Slugger926 - Like mrMikee, I have given a lot of thought to doing this. However decided to take a middle road - a very basic website that only offers engineering information not available elsewhere, for free. The only "advertising" that I do is the link below.

The results have been astounding. Website "hits" have increased steadily each month. I have received one consulting opportunity, but it has turned into an important one. Mostly I receive a small amount of email from a wide variety of interesting, and sometimes noted individuals who have found one item or another useful. The experince of leaning how to develope and maintain a website has been rewarding. My step-daughter (professional website developer) gave me one 30 minute lesson.

An interesting thing about the web is how it "gets the word out" about web traffic, automatically. As an example, Google on "Slugger926" and see what you get.

Based on these experiences, suggest that a site offering both worthwhile, free content (to increase traffic to your site) and a description of your business services might work. One potential problem for many engineers is that they may be limited to work in states where they are licensed. Perhaps your Bioengineering field does not have those limitations. And of course, there is no way to predict what other opportunities may come along. Web hosting & domain name purchase is inexpensive, suggest that you try it.

Best Wishes

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[mrMikee]

Slugger926,

If you decide to do a website and don't have a preference for software, or don't have someone to do this for you, I would suggest SiteSpinner by Virtual Mechanics. It worked well for me and I hadn't done a website before. Cost is only $49.

Just thought I'd bring that up. I really don't want to create a distraction to the original post with software things. I too would like to hear from others about their websites.

http://virtualmechanics.com

Reviews at

http://www.download.com/SiteSpinner/3640-2048_4-10293701.html

-Mike

 

[fndn]

Most jobs come through three types of referrals. You might know the Architect, geotechnical or Civil who has seen your name around or your work and gives your name out to the client. Another referral source is a contractor that has worked with you who throws your name in as well. The most credible though is a former client whom you did similar projects succesfully in the past and is a pleased client.

If you're new you will have to talk with others in your locale and see the best way to network. Limited advertizing will work in some cases.

Websites are great for savvy clients who are ready to buy but in 4 years have yet to get a client-only requests for propsals or free site visit requests.

To learn more marketing as a consultant, I recommend

http://www.summitconsulting.com

 

[RDK]

What kind of engineering business?

In 13 years running my own business I have never gotten any significant work from someone who I did not know before they gave me the job.

Most of getting engineering work is referrals and contacts. Web sites and other forms of advertising should only be seen as a method of developing these contacts and not getting any work directly.

BTW Why start on the side? If you really think that you can make a go of it why not quit your day job and do the work. As someone operating a one man firm I have a real problem with someone with a day job who can use his companies resources and time (even if all you are doing is bouncing ideas around at coffee time) competing against me.

If you want to be a business person and compete with me on a level playing field then welcome to the fun and games, however if you are using your employer’s resources to compete against me be prepared for a formal complaint to the local association for unethical practices.




Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Slugger926]

Rick -

Why to start a business on the side - price of diapers, increased price of gas, food, utility bills, and my current job is covering those costs even though they haven't given anyone in this city a raise in 5 years. We are all making less now due to inflation than when we graduated college. They also tend to lay us off here to replace us in the city where management resides at double the pay.

On top of that, they tend to layoff those with P.E licenses before others at each round of layoffs.

Our work flow here here is also very boom to bust in cycles due to the quartley cycles of AFE's being approved. We get swamped with jobs, they go to install, then we have a dead per until equipment starts showing up on site. We are then swamped supporting install teams. We are as effecient as the management system allows. We used to do about 20 times the amount of work under better business processes 8 years ago.

Most everyone in this office are working on their parchutes for when they shut our office down. Don't worry, we aren't competing against you, but trying to learn as much as possible in our development time. If we weather the storm, we will probably be better off here over the long haul depending on what management and the company that is buying us decides.

There is no way I would take on any work requiring construction management, because that would require the same time that my employer requires. The type of stuff I could imagine designing are small projects or machines that can be handed off to the client for their own management and/or a construction manager/engineer. Maybe I could even helping out local engineering firms that can't hire the extra manpower on small simple jobs. I also can do flood plain evaluations for houses that are in mis-identified FEMA flood plains.

I am trying figure out a way to step out on my own when the inevitable office closure happens here. This is a small world. The more research I do, the more I find out that the big two engineering firms have most of the work locked up in this state (although they do subcontract some of it out to individual engineers after chopping it up).

Someday I may require your services or vice/versa.

 

[mrMikee]

Slugger926,

Does your employer know that you want to go into business part time? Do they or would they approve? If not how do you think they would react? The attitude of companies towards moonlighting may have changed over the years but it used to be against the unwritten rules. Just something to think about.

-Mike

 

[RDK]

If your side business is in any way in competition or you use your employer’s resources to compete then you are outside the ethical boundary.

By using company resources I mean things as simple as looking something up in a company reference book, even after hours.

I have to earn the money to buy that book to look up an answer; if you get it for free from your employer then you are in effect stealing it from him if you do so without his permission and unfairly competing against me even with his permission.

Same goes for internet and other computer services. I have to bill enough hours to pay for these, you are unfairly getting it for free.

If you are in any way competing against your employer and that includes offering similar services to clients not presently served by your employer. (i.e. design services to homeowners when your employer offers these same services to the non residential sector) then you are stealing business or potential business form your employer.

If you spend coffee breaks discussing outside work related issues with your co-workers then you are stealing their services from your employer.

Bottom line if you compete against me and use your employer’s resources to do so I will (and have) reported you to the local association for unethical conduit.

How fast will your job last in the next round of layoffs if you are no longer a PE or P.Eng, if even for a short period of time?

How can you compete part time and afford the insurance necessary to fulfill your ethical obligation to protect the public?

If you want to be a consultant then become one. Quit your day job and compete against me openly and fairly.

If you do not want to take that major step, then put up with what your work place offers and the conditions of being an employee in the place you picked to live. It may mean not affording the things that you want and reducing your lifestyle to what salaried employment offers but you will at least still be ethical and professional.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[mrMikee]

RDK,

You are suggesting that it is unethical to work part time. However, you seem to base this on a lot of assumptions. If you have some suggestions then make them, but I think you should do so in a less threatening manner. While I have never worked part time I have for many years had a better computer and a more complete library at home than was available at work. My point is that you should be careful what you assume.

Regards,
-Mike

 

[Slugger926]

Everyone in our department including the management is setting up their parachutes and working part time at something.

How fast will your job last in the next round of layoffs if you are no longer a PE or P.Eng, if even for a short period of time? It will probably last at least 2 years longer. The two guys that got their PE's before me were let go 6 months to a year before I obtained my PE. A lot of corporations are getting rid of PE's these days according to my college classmates. Go figure you get punished for trying to do something right.

Moonlighting with a PE is a common practice around here as long as there is no competition between jobs. It is different for those working in engineering firms rather than corporations or universities though. The main reason I have survived 100's of layoffs is that I am that I am the few ethical ones around in the company.

All of my engineering resources, books, and programs are at home. What I have to work with at work is very outdated and rediculous to use (created by upper management to slow workers down so they retain headcount (unethical)).

How can you compete part time and afford the insurance necessary to fulfill your ethical obligation to protect the public? I am trying to learn the hidden business side to engineering firms. Some niche areas won't require insurance either.

Right now, it looks like my self field trained Golden Retriever will make me more $$$ than my P.E. license ever will. She also took tons of work to compete at the levels where she will make $$$.

 

[Slugger926]

RDK - Looking at your website, your firm would really help out a lot of part time engineering projects.

Say I have a friend with land that needed to be developed for a housing addition. I could do the design work for him, and your firm could take over the construction management. There is no way a engineer doing a project here and there on the side could keep up with all the questions and project management that will come up when construction starts.

I almost always moonlighted after HS from working brush crews with the electric company, warehouse work, to officiating baseball games. There is nothing wrong with a lil hard work as long as a person isn't undercutting the competition.

 

[RDK]

Yes I make a lot of assumptions. It all comes down to the fact that I do not believe that you can serve two masters. Either you are an employee with the “security” of having someone else responsible for finding enough work to pay your salary and you do not use his resources to compete against him or any one else or you strike out on your own and start your own full time business.

Your first ethical obligation is to protect the public. Part of protecting the public is to have sufficient errors and omissions insurance to make things right. How can you afford this on a part time basis?

You have an obligation to your employer. How can you fulfill this obligation if you are looking at doing work in competition to him? Or using his resources to put money in your own pocket?

You have an obligation to only compete fairly with your fellow engineers. How can you do this while undercutting him on fees because you do not have to spend money on the resources that you obtain from your employer or save by not having E&O insurance.

Bottom line is if you want to be an independent consultant then show your commitment to that path by quitting your day job and becoming an independent consultant.

If you are not willing to do that then keep the security of having someone else responsible for generating enough business to pay your salary..


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Slugger926]

No one said anything about not having insurance or undercutting competition. Insurnance is required by customers, and undercutting other engineers is illegal here.

You also falsely assume that there is security in working for someone else. In a right to work state like this one, the employer can walk a person out the door for no reason. Likewise the employee can walk out as well. If you seen how engineers and employees have been treated, you would understand that the engineers are basically working for themselves at a fixed annual rate.

You seem to assume that others get free rides too. Engineers here are libel for their work whether they are working for a corporation or as a consultant.

I am sure you have worked for more than one client at a time, and put in more than a standard 8 hour day doing so.

Also, those that work outside the ethical boundries will lose their jobs with their main employer and/or get fined by their licensing board.

This thread has gotten way off topic. I am leaning towards designing stuff for myself, having it contract built by local machinists, and selling the merchandise on E-Bay. That kind of stuff could have been done without a P.E.

 

[mrMikee]

RDK,

I agree that there are ethical issues that need to be addressed when working a full time position and also working on the side. These concern responsibilities you have to your full time employer, the type of work you intend to do, and responsibilities to your customers. I believe that under certain circumstances it is possible to do this in an ethical and professional manner, but I don't know the details of the situation we are discussing here and will not jump to conclusions and ridicule someone who is thinking about it.

There’s plenty of good information that we could be discussing about setting up a business, working with your current employer, getting new clients, advertising, websites, and so on. It seems to me that focusing on whose books, computers, and internet connections are used, and who discusses what at coffee breaks, is a waste of bandwidth.

Regards,
-Mike

 

[zcp]

RDK,

You sound like you have been burned one too many times. Why the hostility? Are you telling me that your company can not compete with someone working part time with no insurance?

Slugger926,

As for your website, make it simple and they will come. I use my site to "center" my advertising. Flyers, calls, emails, my card, etc. funnel people to my website for contact info and the types of services I provide. I have gotten calls/jobs/etc. from my website, but mostly it is for information purposes. Nowadays, the first thing people want to do is read about what they are going to buy on the net....whether it be a car or engineering services.

As for finding work....networking is the key. Call or email ten people a week to touch base and see if they need some help. This list of people starts with the people you know (family, friends, etc.) and evolves into people you meet, sat next to on the airplane, etc. Good luck and don't let RDK scare you off. Many businesses are started part time and evolve to where they can support your family and you can go "full time".

ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com

 

[SlideRuleEra]

RDK - I have two questions:

1. I am a part-time "retiree", and a part-time consultant (including your field, project management). Since retirement income could be looked at as a partial subsidy to my consulting business, would you consider this unfair competition?

2. For most of my "full time" career, I was employed by an electric utility. On occasion I had opportunities to perform outside engineering work. During these opportunities, I neither generated, nor contributed to the generation of, even one watt of electric power. Was I in competition with my employer?

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[solid7]

I recently tired of getting laid off every 3-5 years. I'm not really what you consider "corporate management" material - in other words, I don't play well with others when there is ass kissing and politics involved. So, I started my own firm.

Here is my advice, uncut, and uncensored.

1) New businesses take a year to get a good name established, and start making money. If you can't spare a year of your life without income, don't bother.

2) You should NEVER think of engineering as a "side" business. If you do, you won't last long. This is a business that's all about doing good work, and meeting deadlines. If you don't put in the time, you won't get repeat business. And I can assure you, for new businesses who are FULL time, there are many late nights in the office...

3) Following along with #2 - Most tasks that you get are menial. People who want good work, don't usually give new guys a chance. You have to work HARD for it.

4) Websites will never get more exposure than you make for yourself in person. However, you MUST have a website in this day and age. It's become the unwritten rule. (almost like having a cell phone, or an answering machine)

5) A website WILL bring you business, but you have to be seen. If you do it yourself, you must master another profession - SEO (search engine optimization) or pay big money for optimization and link building, or even more for sponsored listings. If nobody sees your site, you have wasted your time. It should be something that ACTUALLY registers for a given search. Not easy to do. (a listing in dmoz.org is vital, as it is tied to Google, and not many sites with popular or competitive themes get air without a dmoz listing - an a listing cannot be bought or guaranteed)


I can go on and on, but these are some of the most prominent points...




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[Slugger926]

Rick was right about one thing. A person cannot serve two masters. A person cannot serve God and Man. You gotta keep things in perspective.

It is very common for people to handle multiple jobs, and consultants to consult to multiple clients. Greedy people tend don't like their employees to do anything but spend every waking moment working for them while they wonder why they keep losing employees.

If it weren't for people moonlighting, some of our industries would be totally controlled by large corportations such as the Beef industry for one example. We would all be paying much higher prices for things at the store.

 

[solid7]

Moonlighting seldom works. It doesn't take most customers very long to figure out that your "side" business is just that.

Unfortunately, most people in business don't respect the part-time business owner - and rightfully so. You must ask yourself a fundamental question: if this were MY product, and I was asking someone to give creative input, would I want their full attention? Would I want to be given priority, as a paying customer? Would I want to ensure that I could trust them to deliver the product on time, and be able to communicate with them through any step of the process, during NORMAL hours? Are these people neglecting other areas of their lives - such as sleep and family - for the sake of part-time work? (these questions are righteous)

I'm not suggesting that it cannot work - I am confidently stating that it SELDOM does. This is my informed advice, as I have worked with several "part-timers," and had many discussions with others who employed free-lance part-timers. It is OUR general concensus that part-timers are a big NO-NO. They are a boon to us (we regularly hire free-lancers) and our customers. And, we know from being business owners, that part time is just a myth, if you have any serious aspirations for your business.

If you invest the money to buy equimpent, get licensed in your state and locality, and then put in the time and effort to advertise, you pretty much need to be full-time to make ends meet. If you bootleg software, and work under the table, you'll be known soon enough. Some people might use those kind for awhile - but they're usually no more trustworthy than one another, and it doesn't make for a healthy business relationship.

Finally - I would like to speak to your point about big businesses. Regardless of their ethics, they didn't get big by accident. You can choose to be idealistic, and play the resentment game, or you can do like so many other entrepeneurs - you can let them make YOU rich. Big, greedy, dirty companies, whether we like it or not, are the backbone of our economy. They answer to their own autorities, and I answer to mine - that is, ME. I don't worry about internal politics, or shareholders. I do, however, use all the tools at my disposal - including an SDB 8(a) status, to get their business. It is good for both of us. And, in doing so, I maintain my independence from them, and ensure that my potential to maximize growth and capital is directly tied to my own ambition and quality of work, which in turn, is tied to the pride that I have in the work that I do. I get all of the job satisfaction that I've ever wanted, and I work for the big companies, PLUS, I get the salary that they never paid me.

So, the moral is: be a sourpuss if you like, or realize that this is the way things are. You might as well make the situation work for you. Greedy people will always exist, and they will always hold the purse strings. You only need to put everything in proper perspective. Whether you like it or not, you end up working for them. Will it be on your terms, or theirs?




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