Steel is an alloy 2

[trainguy]

Hello all.

After a friendly disagreement at a recent party, I am looking for your opinions on the following:

Is the expression:

"Steel is an alloy" technically correct?

Something about this statement rings false with me, as I was saying there are many metallic alloys which can be called steel.

My exact argument was that steel is not an alloy, but a type of material of which there are many "recipes", or alloys. It's almost as if "steel is hundreds of alloys" is more correct.

Opinions, anyone?

tg

 

[IRstuff]

I think "pedantic" is the technically correct term.

All hinges on the meaning and intent of "an." English is wonderfully ambiguous, and "an alloy" can be used to mean a specific alloy formulation, or to distinguish the object from pure elements, or from mixtures.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[mcgyvr]

Steel IS an alloy.
An alloy is a solid with more than one element. Steel=iron+carbon.

 

[tr1ntx]

An "alloy" is a solution of one or more elements into a metal (not necessarily an elemental metal). In the case of steel, it does involve an elemental metal, iron, with carbon dissolved in it. So yes, steel is an alloy.

However, the term "steel" does not describe a particular or exact formulation of iron and carbon (much less other impurity/trace elements which can be present). 99.95 lbs of pure molten iron which gets 0.05 lbs of carbon added to it is steel. So is 99.20 lbs of iron with 0.80 lbs of carbon (16 times as much). But the 2 materials will have vastly different strength, hardness, ductility, etc. The first is a "low carbon steel", the latter a "high carbon steel".

Other materials can be alloyed with the metal called steel. Such as chromium. Add a little chromium and you have a "low-alloy steel".

Add more chromium, quite a bit of molybdenum, and maybe some nickel and you have a "high alloy steel".

Add a lot of chromium, a lot of molybdenum, more nickel, and some cobalt (so much stuff that the original iron is a small part of the mixture) and you have a super-alloy.

I'm sure this clears it up, LOL. If it has more than iron, carbon and the trace impurities, it is an alloy of steel.

 

[metengr]

Is the expression:

"Steel is an alloy" technically correct?

Yes, it is an alloy.

Did you at least wager a drink on this?

 

[IRstuff]

You guys are BAD at reading OPs.

The OP stated,
"My exact argument was that steel is not an alloy, but a type of material of which there are many "recipes", or alloys. It's almost as if "steel is hundreds of alloys" is more correct."

It's a grammar question, not a materials question.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[MikeMet]

No grammer question allowed in a technical forum. Steel is a generic word that can be applied to hundreds of alloys. You need to modify steel with other words to be correct, such a low carbon steel, medium carbon steel, etc.

You still lose your bet because if steel is unmodified generic term applied to many types of alloys, steel is still an alloy.

Pay the bet and get a life.

 

[cloa]

Let alone the mangnese which is usually present in steel.

 

[cloa]

There is the Engineering Language/ Grammar Skills Forum

 

[trainguy]

Thanks guys.

No actual wagered amount, just my honour. Worst part of it, it was a stock broker I was sparring with...

I guess I could counter with "management fees are a rip-off", and be correct...

tg

 

[IRstuff]

Stockbrokers and lawyers are probably ahead of the game when it comes to microparsing English words. Engineers do that, but on a more limited basis, and that's usually reserved for the systems engineer when we don't meet the spec, and we have to "interpret" the requirement in such a way that we do meet the interpreted spec.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[SMF1964]

To quote a famous former President, "It all depends on what the meaning of the 'is' is."

Well, in this case, define the connotation of the word "alloy". Do you mean "alloy" as opposed to "pure metal"? Then yes, steel is an alloy. Do you mean "alloy" as in "a specific, unique recipe of elements conforming to a set designation" then no, steel is not an alloy.

What do you mean by the word "steel"?

Actually, tell the stockbroker that he is correct and send him a bill for your time.

 

[TVP]

Standards organizations like SAE, ASTM, etc. use the following definitions and terminology:

definition of steel from SAE J411
Steel— Steel is a malleable alloy of iron and carbon that has been made molten in the process of manufacture
and contains approximately 0.05 to 2.0% carbon, as well as some manganese and sometimes other alloying
elements.

what are different steels called?
When a steel with a specific composition is defined in a standard, it is referred to as a grade. Various designations for steel grades are used, e.g., UNS numbers like UNS G10100 or S30400, SAE numbers like 1010, ASTM or SAE Types like Type 304 (UNS S30400), etc.

 

[trainguy]

Thank you. This matter is closed.

 

[Guest102023]

The question is, what were you doing discussing metallurgy at a party? Personally I try to keep that aspect of my life secret, at least when meeting new people.

 

[trainguy]

Not sure,

but he started...

For the record, I can still beat him at squash.

tg

 

[rmw]

Arguing technical things with non technical people is like wrestling a pig in the mud. All you do is get dirty and you soon discover that they like it.

rmw