Stop-start cars 1

[SomptingGuy]

The facts are these. There is a ?nite supply of fossil fuel left and, in broad terms, consuming it is going to create the same amount of pollution. It doesn't matter whether I drive the Bentley and use it all up tomorrow, or drive something that conks out temporarily at every junction and eke it out for another few years. Conserving energy is ultimately fruitless and, more to the point, completely at loggerheads with the demands of a progressive world.

Taken from an article in tlast weekend's Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2006/07/08/mrmay08.xml

I know columnists are supposed to go against the flow and stir up discussions, but I've never heard this argument put forward before.

Also related to the article, would anyone in this forum really feel secure driving a stop-start car?

 

[Fabrico]

With reasoning like that of the columnist, what good is anything?

Many hybrids are start-stop but some must feel more "natural" than others. Perhaps it just takes getting used to.

From one point of view, everything we do is a miracle, from another, everything is a waste. Find a spot you are comfortable with and try to hang on to it.

 

[globi5]

As Fabrico said, hybrids are already start-stop and if consumers couldn't live with it, manufacturers probably wouldn't sell them or hybrids would come with a special noise generator, such that consumers wouldn't notice the start-stop feature.

And regarding this article: One can argue that a substantial amount of ethanol and Biodiesel is already being burnt and this adds to the polution as well. If we would conserve fossil fuels and prices would be as low as they were 40 years ago, hardly anyone would buy ethanol or Biodiesel in the first place.
In addition, one can also argue, if we pollute less now at least the current population will deal with less pollution problems and we simply have future generations deal with it.

 

[GregLocock]

I'd have no problem with a well engineered stop-start car. In fact I'd have no real problem with a badly engineered one - a starter button and an engine-kill button on the dash would do me. Something slightly more sexy tied into the clutch pedal would be great (OK, haven't though that one through yet). Obviously James May needs to either fix his current car (probably beyond his abilities) or buy a tedious Toyota.

His argument is a bit silly. Oil is not going to 'run out' -it will get more expensive which will encourage the capital investments needed to bring the many existing alternatives on-line.

Conserving oil, and energy, is not fruitless. Given the option of wasting a resource, or not, then only a perverse child would waste the resource. Now it may be that your idea of what constitutes waste, and mine, differ, that is fine, but just burning it up for no good reason is not.

So James May, grow up, and buy a decent car.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[swall]

Greg--Volkswagen of America was working on a start stop diesel and had a fleet of test cars. They had the switch actuated by the clutch pedal just as you suggested. One of the engineers I worked with at a brake system supplier had come from VOA and told me about these.

 

[Surestick]

By posting just that paragraph you have taken it out of context.
The next paragraph in the article is:

So – and assuming that fossil fuel consumption really is an issue – here's a suggestion. All the endeavour and ingenuity, all the time, equipment and resources, all the wit and learning – in short, every manifestation of human effort being wasted on the C2 Stop & Start, the hybrid, the wind farm and the ecological washing machine; it should all be directed towards ?nding the alternative.

Which makes the preceeding paragraph sound a lot less like it's coming from someone suggesting we all play the fiddle while Rome is burning...

 

[GregLocock]

But, in context, how much effort does it take to develop and fit Stop & Start? Not much. How much oil does it save? Not much.

How much effort will it take to develop and use the Next Big Thing? A lot. How much oil will it save? a lot.

Seems to me the rewards are roughly proportional to the effort, and one of those two is a sure thing.

I could even go further and suggest that Marketing probably paid for the Stop&Start feature.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Fair point Surestick. And I agree with Greg too - cars like this are targeted at people who like gizmos.

Anybody doing a lot of stop-start jouneys who really wanted to save fuel would use their car less. Fuel economy should really be measured in units of volume/time rather than volume/distance. My car gets through about 25 litres per week.

 

[tdirs1]

VW had stop start systems on various model in the early 80s.1 model i had experience of was a 1.8 passat,a brilliant systems just very unnerving sat at traffic lights with no engine running!!Would only work when clutch fully pressed,you would press button on end of indicator stalk,the engine would stop then to restar you would just press accelerator pedal very lightly and the motor would start....hopefully.