Stress Engineer from US moving to Alberta - How's the work situation? 5

[Stringmaker]

I work as a stress engineer at a gas turbine manufacturer here on the east coast at the moment. I love doing structural/stress analysis work and using FEA as a tool to design and solve complex engineering problems. I'd like to move to Alberta, either Edmonton or Calgary, this coming year as my fiancee is living there for the foreseeable future. What prospects are there in aerospace, automotive, defense, or other industries which require a skill set similar to what I have? I've been looking online and most things seem to be geared towards the Oil & Gas industry.

I have an MS in Mechanical Engineering, great analytical skills and work experience, am highly proficient with Ansys, LS-Dyna, and Nastran, and am pretty handy with a few CAD programs too. Jobs seem tough to come by up there. Does anyone have suggestions where would be a good place to look which I may not have overlooked already?

Thank you!

 

[SNORGY]

Stringmaker:

The market here is fairly barren in all sectors.

You might try the packagers of equipment similar to what you are already working on (gas turbine packagers or rotating equipment packagers). Still an "O&G" slant but one level removed from the run of the mill stuff.

About a year ago, people were hiring anything bipedal that had a pulse. Now, both Calgary and Edmonton are reduced to an economic wasteland with streets densely populated by unemployed bipeds aimlessly searching for food, work or purpose.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[GMcD]

Living next door to Alberta, what Snorgy says is actually brutally realistic. Remember, this is Canada, so "defense industries" are pretty light on the ground - there are more submarines in the West Edmonton Mall than what the Canadian Navy has, and half the fleet of aircraft we have in the Armed Forces/Forces Armees are used as parts to keep the rest flying. The automotive industry is in central Ontario and is really just assembly lines, no new design, and the aerospace industries are pretty small, to non-existant. Unless you want to do maintenance on 50 year old Beavers and floatplanes, all of the aircraft maintenance and support for most of the commercial airlines is done offshore/central America locations.

Canada is still, for the most part, a natural resources based economy with small pockets of "tech" going on in small local companies and locations.

 

[Stringmaker]

SNORGY/GMcD,
Thanks for the input so far. Do you have any advice on what keywords or specific companies I may look into contacting? I'm planning a move there mid 2010 but intend to actually start the search for prospective employers in the near future. I'd greatly appreciate any recommendations.

Thank you!

 

[Aconnell]

Hi Stringmaker,

There isn't much in any of the sectors you mention here, and there is a down turn in hiring as the other posters have mentioned. My first job was actually at a local aerospace company in Edmonton which closed down recently (I left for the chemical industry beforehand). Some of the people I worked with from that company have been able to get jobs with various companies designing equipment for the oil industry such as down hole drilling equipment where stress analysis and materials knowledge is useful. Also with your background you may want to see if there are any openings in the local plants for people with rotating equipment experience. I would suggest you try to market yourself as a generalist who is willing and able to learn and try new things rather than as a specialist. That is how I was able to change industries, and I know the biggest complaint I hear from my colleagues at companies which are still hiring is that there are alot of people out there who only know how to do one thing really well but are not able or willing to adapt and learn new things. Hopefully things pick up in 2010 and you have an easier time finding something.

 

[MultiVar]

1) I'm assuming you're a US Citizen, so even post-NAFTA, I believe there are still several LEGAL HOOPS both you and your prospective employer will have to jump through... think green card... think H-1B visa. Canada has parallels, and is historically more "protectionist".

How likely is it that a Canadian company will be able to prove they can't hire a Canadian citizen in THIS economy?

2) You use the word LOVE for your job (VERY lucky in this economy), but only "like" in relation to being with your fiance'. LIFE-saving Freudian slip there, my ENG brother!... read on...

3) NEVER, EVER relocate, or in anyway uproot or compromise your life or career for a woman, any woman, any time, anywhere. She may SAY she loves and appreciates your sacrifice, and at the CONSCIOUS level she's probably totally sincere (assuming she's a "good egg"), but... deep down, at a subconscious level she has NO coherent connection with, her Inner Cavewoman has just DOMINATED YOU, and thereby, LOST RESPECT FOR YOU. The slow disintegration of "wuv, twue wuv" will have begun. AMHIK.

Remain dominant. Make her move TO YOU. Plenty of fish in the sea, but few hotshot FEA engineers. ;') Much as you may wish, there's no such thing as "equal" partners in a marriage, so the alpha dog might as well be you.

I'm as serious as a heart attack on this. Get out of your "engineer/nerd headspace", consult psychology texts, divorce-nightmare texts, guys who are natural "studs" with women, career military/naval officers... and divorced guys who are 20 years your senior.

Even aside from all that, broke, unemployed, and in a foreign country is no way to start a marriage.

 

[PeterStock]

Having relocated / changed jobs to be with my wife, I disagree with MultiVar's statement. My wife was a lifelong resident of the Boston area, I was a long time job shopper. It was easier for me to relocated to the Boston area than for her to move away from friends and family to be with me. We have since moved to Puerto Rico for my current job. I did however wait to move to Boston until I had a job lined up there.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[Stringmaker]

Aconnell,
Thank you for the advice. You bring up a good point about advertising one's self as a generalist rather than a specialist when entering into another field.

Multivar,
I appreciate the professional advice which you have offered. You lend an interesting perspective on how hiring non-citizens may be viewed within Canada.

My intention for this post was to keep it steered in the direction of the professional realm. Not personal. Notice, I said that I love what I do in my initial posting. I made no mention of professing my love for the company I am employed at. I HAVE been lucky enough to meet a stunning woman who any man would gladly marry and spend his life with. She has already turned her world upside down for the sole reason of being closer to me. I don't see it appropriate or pertinent to discuss the details. But I think any man who would put his career before someone as special as I have does not deserve to call himself a man. I happily live in the 20th century and have no plans to ever revert back to the Neanderthalic ways of our great ancestors.

And, for what it's worth. Here in The US, being an "FEA hotshot" qualifies you to be the glorified babysitter of 10-20 engineers offshore who you will never meet. I'm somewhat jealous of them for getting to do the real work. ;-)


I'd be curious to hear if anyone has experience going from working in the US to Canada. I'd like to know where I could find out more specifics on the process involved. Also, any advice on how to successfully approach the situation with employers would be much appreciated. Thanks to all so far!

 

[Waidesworld]

Peter,

How was the move from Boston to PR? Did you get transferred or did you have an option?

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[SNORGY]

Stringmaker:

I would be inclined to try GE (General Electric) or any of the centrifugal compressor / turbine packagers out of the yellow pages. After that, the major module fabricators who might start getting busy before others would include Propak (Airdrie) or Toromont (Calgary). The last rotating equipment-related FEA work that I was involved with was with National Process Equipment based out of Edmonton, but they do have contacts in Calgary. I mention them because I was a Project Engineer coordinating some forensic engineering related to a pump failure on one of their FMC units (which had been pushed to its limits in operation and subjected to some nasty transients and high vibrations), and their cooperation and remedy efforts were outstanding. The engineers that FMC sent up from Houston who ultimately did the FEA were first class all the way. That place impressed me, so there you go.

Failing the fabricator / packager shop environment, if you wanted to try the EPC route, you are better off trying COLT-WP, Fluor, Bantrel or Lavalin (the bigger players), but I think one place that might be looking for people before anyone else here is Equinox.

I don't have a lot of experience with engineers from south of the border coming up here to work full time but the right folks will make it happen for you.

As for the personal aspect of things, I know if my wife ever got truly fed up with things here (and we're getting there), I would forfeit my career and go wherever on the planet she wanted to go, even if my new "career" amounted to nothing more than scooping up after the dogs. I'm not one to put "career" ahead of the things in life that really matter to me (wife and dogs).

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[PeterStock]

The move from Boston to PR was by choice. I am at the end of the 1st year of a 3 year contract. The company I was working for was in automotive. There were several layoffs before I left and some after. I have noticed a number of engineers in the department I was in who are now working elsewhere. The job is fine, some things about PR that take some getting used too. I heard a story from one of my coworkers about the manager of a place he worked on the south side of the island. He broke his arm. He had someone drive him to the airport rather than wait in line for the xray, a week for the results etc. Having had some experience with health care here, I do not blame him. If I had the money, I would have done the same. I do not think the word appointment acutally translates here.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[Stringmaker]

SNORGY,
Much thanks and a star for your last post. Recommendations like that are exactly what I'm looking for!

 

[Aconnell]

Hi Stringmaker,

I didn't realize you were from the US. If your degree is not from a Canadian school I would suggest that you contact APEGGA which is the local regulating body for engineering in the province of Alberta, and have them assess your degree and experience. To be able to practice engineering (without having your work signed off by another engineer) you will need them to recognize your qualifications and experience and I know from experiences some of my co-workers have had it can be a long and frustrating process so you may want to get started now. If you can get them to recognize your credentials and grant you a P. Eng designation when you move here it will make you alot more marketable and alot of jobs require a P. Eng. I would say they would likely be your biggest road block, but hopefully it is not an issue.

 

[moltenmetal]

Are you married to a Canadian citizen? If so, you will have no problem getting official "permission" to work when you move here.

Canada may have "historically" been more protectionist than the US, but we have no equivalent to the H-1B visa program. If you get permission to immigrate legally, you have permission to work, immediately and permanently.

Unfortunately, Canada long ago moved to the so-called "human capital" model of immigration: basically, the feds allow a certain numbef of people each year under the various classes of immigrants ("skilled workers" (economic immigrants), family reunification (non-citizen relatives of people already here), and refugees/asylum seekers). Amongst the economic class of immigrants, they don't have quotas by profession- you get "points" based on your level of education and years of work experience amongst other factors. Once you're here, you become "human capital"- i.e. they "let the economy sort you out" as far as finding a job of any kind, whether or not it suits your skills and experience.

What has resulted is a glut of engineers, particularly in the major cities, most particularly in Toronto, and primarily from south Asia and China. It was far worse in 2001-3, when as many engineers were settling in Toronto as Canada graduated from all of its universities on a yearly basis.

With a US education and work experience, you will likely have fewer problems finding work than an Indian or Chinese engineer would, because the interviewers will see your work experience as more likely to be similar to what you would have obtained in Canada. But it's far from a slam dunk, especially in these economic times. As of 2006, less than 1/3 of the people in Canada who had engineering degrees worked in the engineering field.

Go to the APEGGA website and start the application process BEFORE you immigrate. Even if you meet all the other criteria, you will need to obtain a year of local experience before you get a license. But a license is NOT required to work as an employee engineer in any of the Canadian provinces.

 

[Stringmaker]

Aconnell,
Thank you for the head's up about APEGGA. Unfortunately, I have not worked under a licensed PE here in the US. When working in the aerospace/defense sector here a PE in most companies buys no added merit so few people seek them.

Moltenmetal,
I am not married to a Canadian citizen. My fiancee is working to become a permanent resident at the moment. She just immigrated to Canada so she has a ways to go and will not be too far ahead of me. You're analyis of the situation does not sound promising. Though, I've compiled a list of interesting prospects whom I'm going to start contacting in the very near future to get the ball rolling.

Looks like in terms of engineering analysis most of it is based on Calgary with a bit in Edmonton. I see little elsewhere in the province. I'll post an update on how things are moving along once I have some feedback.

Thank you!

 

[cancmm]

I'm a Canadian citizen who moved from Calgary to the US a few years ago to live with my girlfriend (now wife). I obtained a Nafta TN visa through my new US employer and I believe the same process is applicable for those looking to move to Canada from the US. The only catch is you need a job offer prior to moving and applying. It's a simple way of getting your foot in the door and I suggest you look into it.

 

[moltenmetal]

cancnm offers the very best advice anybody can give on the subject. To minimize your risk and to make the process as easy as possible, you should have a job offer in hand BEFORE you change countries. This is far easier for you to achieve if you're resident in the US than if you're from somewhere more distant from Canada, and you should take advantage of that fact.

The process of establishing that you should be hired and permitted to immigrate, rather than requiring them to hire a citizen or a landed immigrant resident, is not an onerous one for the employer. They'll do it if they really need your skills and think you're a really good potential hire. Even though there are plenty of engineers driving taxis here, the Federal government is so horn-swoggled into thinking there's a "labour shortage" that they apparently still have three groups of engineers (mining, petroleum and one other I can't remember) on a so-called "fast track" skilled worker immigration program- the Feds think it's still 2006 and they think all of Canada is northern Alberta during that time period I guess. If the system strives to be protectionist it's doing a p*ss poor job, which is of course good for employers and for folks in your particular situation but no comfort whatsoever to the folks already here and unable to find work even approximately suiting their education and experience.

Note that I'm talking about the normative situation for engineers in general- you in particular, with your abilities and skills and some flexibility in what sort of work you'd consider undertaking, could be absolutely fine. Aerospace or defense work in Alberta is not going to be an easy job find for you, but if your skills are easily transferrable to oil and gas you may have a shot even despite the downturn. Particular engineers in particular markets can have a fabulous career, uninterrupted by significant periods of unemployment, and commanding good salaries and working conditions throughout, and be totally oblivious to what it's like for the rest of the folks out there in the job market. Canada's a big, beautiful and (in most parts) friendly country with a first-world economy- 1/10th the size of the US economy mind you, but still one of the G7. Thousands of immigrant engineers from all over the world do achieve entry to the profession of engineering in Canada every year- it's just that thousands more, and thousands of fresh graduate Canadian engineers as well, are not so lucky.

Just remember that a job offer is not a guarantee. It is NOT a contract- no "compensation" (money) has changed hands for one thing. Job offers can be rescinded or renegotiated after the fact by unscrupulous employers, especially when they think you have no option other than to work for them because of your immigration situation etc. A job offer just makes things a great deal easier and faster and safer.

 

[MultiVar]

As of 2006, less than 1/3 of the people in Canada who had engineering degrees worked in the engineering field.

OUCH... is that 2 yellow flags, or 1 large RED flag? Love to see the breakdown, details, etc.

I HAVE been lucky enough to meet a stunning woman who any man would gladly marry and spend his life with.

Indeed, most of us have... some more than once... GREATEST feeling in the solar system! Better than graduating! Still, as EN-guh-neers, we wisely apply a belt+suspenders approach... what if... while she's up in Canada... you "accidentally" bumped into one or more of her ex-BFs/hubbies... at a sports bar... and bought him a drink... or three... small world kinda thing... serendipity... aka "alternate load path analysis".

MY BAD!... my bad... further deponent sayeth not. OTOH, it is the PERSONAL strategies forum. ;') Sadly, we're still several millennia of evolution away from losing the Inner Caveman® and Inner Cavewoman® altogether. In the meantime, it provides me with keen (not cynical) insights.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Good thing you're a stress engineer. Yanks are not welcomed heartily by the gov't/administrative circles. You're excess burden to an already overloaded system, right?

And the healthcare system . . . . . Tough job market as well. Very best of luck to you.

 

[moltenmetal]

multivar: the source is the Engineering and Technology Labour Market Study carried out by Engineers Canada

http://etlms.engineerscanada.ca/media/Interim Report.pdf

p. 5, 1st key finding from the 2006 Census:

"Roughly two-thirds of persons with a university degree in engineering obtained in Canada were employed outside engineering occupations. For individuals who obtained their engineering degree outside Canada, the proportion was 83%"

The report gives plenty of data and analysis (see particularly p. 19), but was written BEFORE the economic meltdown- if the authors thought things were bad then, they were nowhere near as bad as they are now...

ornerynorsk: not sure what your point was exactly. When surveyed, Canadians are overwhelmingly positively disposed towards immigrants and immigration- far more so than the citizens of most other developed nations. Our current prime minister in particular seems to be in love with "Yanks", especially the neo-con variety, and our immigration system by no means discriminates against US citizens. There are far more Canadians going the other direction across the border each year, which is natural because their economy is 10x the size of ours and hence offers far more opportunity.

Your point about healthcare is also lost on me- our system isn't perfect, but is overwhelmingly supported by the average Canadian. Healthcare systems all over the world are in trouble because costs are rising several times faster than the economy is growing. Our federal government hasn't reduced immigration quotas at all due to the recession, the theory being that newcomers generate more revenue in taxes than they consume in government programs like healthcare- even if you don't consider whether their particular skills are actually NEEDED by the local labour market. So we permit far more engineers and other highly educated people to immigrate than our economy could possibly handle, while at the same time deporting bricklayers and other tradesmen who are actually in short supply and come illegally to fill a real labour market vacuum. Bad public policy regardless how you slice it.