Structural Bridge Engineering vs Building Engineering Career 1

[gendna2]

BLUF: Do you recommend I take the path of structural bridge engineering or structural building engineering?

Thank you in advance for taking time to put your 2 cents in for a stranger's future and this website. I've done some research and there are other posts about this topic, like this one thread731-242903, but they usually ask about transitioning from building to bridges or vice-versa. I want to make a decision on which one to pick.

Let me tell you my experience and education; maybe you can decide a better fit.

1. My experience involves government construction contract administration. It has heavily revolved around buildings and QA of various building components. I started off as a civil structural, but due to my experience, I've learned a lot about HVAC, electrical, fire protection, and a great deal about architectural finishes (tile, stud walls, expansion joints, paint, roofing, etc....). I can say that I really know my way around the UFGS and UFC.

2. My education; however, has a great deal of transportation knowledge. I'm a surveying technician, I've studied road geometry, applied the knowledge, and even studied some railroad track engineering. Just judging by education, I'd be a good fit for bridge engineering because I really enjoy highway engineering as a secondary focus and did much more surveying than your typical entry level engineer these days.

Originally, I wanted to go from my current job into bridge design. No question about it. However; after working at my current job, I became intrigued by architecture, MEP, and how those things fit into building design. I've learned so much about buildings, that I think it would be cool to design some and actually deal with an architect, mechanical, and electrical engineer.

Not to mention the UFC and UFGS. I actually know what the heck is inside these behemoths, where to find them, and how to apply them.

Below are some more detailed thoughts:

1. I think bridge engineering might be too easy, and I'm worried that at some point in the near future, we'll automate the design or outsource it so such an extent that there won't be too many jobs left. Frankly, automation is scary; scarier than outsourcing, and I just feel like it could happen.

Maybe this is silly thinking. It sounds like bridges have their own difficulties, none are identical, and there's always some challenge. Hopefully you can fill me in on this thought.

2. Bridge engineering seems to be local. I'm hoping to work abroad as a structural designer at some point. Again, this might be a silly idea because with videos, teleconferincing, etc... the designer can be in Chicago, and the project can be in Saudi Arabia. The only engineer that moves is the construction manager, and I don't want to be a CM.

However; it seems like there's definitely more international building work than bridge work. When you look at China, most of their mega bridges are designed by local SOEs with some input from an international A-E; but their highrises are usually designed by a foreign A-E, often working from a local office, but nonetheless, an international company.

3. The SE exam is mostly based on building design.

4. I like railroad bridges, and they are different. Is there demand for engineers designing these structures?

5. My gut feeling is that long term, there will always be more building work. It seems like making a set of building plans takes a great deal more work than your typical bridge. This kind of ties into point 1, I'm just worried about the long term prospects of bridge engineering.

At this point, I'm happy either way. I'm glad that my job forced me out of my comfort zone, and made me appreciate buildings so I did not mentally pigeon hole myself into bridges. At the same time, I really like highway design, hydraulics, surveying, and structural engineering, so bridge design would be a good fit.

Please let me know what you all think.

 

[msquared48]

"1. I think bridge engineering might be too easy, and I'm worried that at some point in the near future, we'll automate the design or outsource it so such an extent that there won't be too many jobs left. Frankly, automation is scary; scarier than outsourcing, and I just feel like it could happen."

Where'd you ever get that idea? Some of the most complicated structures in the world are bridges, especially the longer span hi-tech structures on the boards in the computers or under construction today.

As for outsourcing, I have seen that a lot in buildings too, which is my forte. That will make no difference, although, most of the more complicated structures are done by large, international firms, T. Y. Lin, Bechtel, etc....

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[oldestguy]

Is the cart before the horse? For instance, with this statement ( I'm a surveying technician,), if that is a summary of the title, it is asking a lot to be a bridge design engineer, Perhaps state your specific degree(s) and years of each experience type and it is more likely you will get useful responses here. In the States, a PE is pretty much also needed, along with an engineering BS degree, probably civil.

 

[gendna2]

I have a PE in civil with a focus in structural. I have a BS in Civil Engineering, and I focused on structural engineering, with a secondary focus on transportation engineering, mostly geometric design of roads and railroads.

The "surveying technician" comment is confusing. I worked as a surveying technician, and have a AAS in Surveying Technology. I don't currently work as a surveying technician.

Besides that, I have worked with AutoCAD, Civil 3D, Microstation, and Geopak.

However; I have little design experience. My experience is mostly construction and contract management and I'm looking to get a master's in structural engineering and transition to design.

Hope that clears it up. Also, I don't mean any disrespect towards bridge engineering by asking if it is easy.

To be honest, the person that really put the automation/outsourcing fear in my head is Stan Caldwell. He wrote a couple of articles in Structural Engineer magazine where he espouses that structural engineering should require an SE license, masters, and even a complete separation from civil engineering. His reasons boil down to outsourcing and automation. I don't agree with his views, but it did get me thinking so I figured I'd ask.

 

[kylesito]

I work as a building structural engineer but Mike McCann is spot on...there isn't such a thing as one side being easier or more difficult than the other. Bridges tend to be MUCH more analysis intensive and some of the smartest engineers I have ever worked with work on this side. Buildings tend to me less analytic but are driven by tighter schedules and budgets. But even this is a gross stereotype that probably doesn't factor in all of the projects. The point is, viewing one as being easier/harder than the other is probably not an accurate assessment.

PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[gendna2]

What are some of the pros and cons of either selection. I'm trying to get as much information to see which one is a better fit. From my recollection of college, most people that stayed in structural design probably went into building design. Part of it was that we had no bridge design courses, the structural engineering curriculum was built around building design.

What I'm getting at is that if most folks go into buildings, maybe there's a demand for bridge engineers.

I don't know...that's why I'm here. I find that in my life, by the time I pick a job, and interact with the people in the know, it's already too late because I've already made my decision. Which leaves the internet as a source of information.

 

[oldestguy]

I'm a little perplexed at the statements made so far. For one, how can one say they they have a complete college education in structures with never having designed a bridge in courses? I'd then question how great that college really was and call that a black mark. The two cents that I would put in now is something like this. Your past experience, while varied is quite limited. No way would I try to fix the direction I go now with out looking to see even if I could get a job in the general field of structures as one possible path, but certainly not one that is fixed. To start in any one direction, you will need an employer for that. Your early choice now may not be open. Being that all the civil fields do change as time goes on, be prepared for those changes. Quite likely some 20 years down the road you will find yourself in a job that was not taught back at college, or at least you will find it much different then. Also, plan on continuing education, if only via seminars. There also are other aspirations that one might keep handy when situations arise. One such "plan" might be that you run your own engineering consulting office some day. If so, a wide variety of past experience can be valuable. Let's hope there will be more comments here from experienced structural engineers relating what they do and how satisfying the work is, since after all, one should like his/her job I think. A final comment: Never tell the boss "I was not hired for that sort of work". Do what ever comes along, even if unpleasant. There are two sides there, but I know a few cases where my advice was best.

 

[ukbridge]

I'd just do whichever one you enjoy doing the most, maybe I'm oversimplifying the question though. I think Kylesito's explanation is a good one about the differences, a gross contrast is better than no contrast. Even on the smaller projects, construction sequence and stability are important e.g. launching which is a very enjoyable part of bridge engineering for me. Go with your heart.

 

[oldestguy]

Now there is a thread under "Bridge Engineering" under the label I-495. Let's see what a PE would recommend as to shoring and later a repaired foundation for that bridge. Remember rock is 150 feet down. Don't tell me that is an easy fix to engineer. That sort of engineering is not specifically taught in college, but still has to be developed by an engineer using some of that basic education.

 

[gendna2]

Copy that on complexity. Just bear in mind, that I'm tabula rasa when it comes to this topic. One idea floated was to go to a company that does both bridges and buildings; though I have a feeling, you'd have to specialize regardless.

I was hoping to get more specifics; I've thought about most of the things mentioned here already.

I was looking for specifics like job satisfaction, job security, career path, etc...

One friend mentioned the obvious, most bridges in the US have been built already, now we're in replacement or upgrade mode; what does that do for job security? Is there enough work out there long term?

Structural building engineers often complain about architects. Why, specifically, is that? Are they too demanding, do they go outside the scope of their contract and expect freebies?

One thing I got going for me is a security clearance. I figure that with all the federal work out there, there's got to be some demand for structural engineers who have a clearance for special projects. Just a thought.

If you have some specifics on your job, career path, pay, etc... of bridge engineering vs building engineering, let me know.

 

[racookpe1978]

Hmmmn.

The more flexible YOU are with respect to what YOU can offer YOUR (potential) future boss, the more likely it YOU will be able to (1) get the first job and (2) provide HIM the opportunity to work on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th job that HE needs to make HIS future more secure. If YOU do not know where your career will go in the future, why should "he" care where your future will go?


Get it?

YOU are not important. HE (HIS needs) in an unknown future ARE MOST IMPORTANT to HIM. And, buy the way, HE is hiring you and really doesn't care about your needs at the present time.

So, can YOU provide HIM with the flexibility HE needs to solve unknown future problems as soon as they come up?

 

[gendna2]

Unfortunately, I think I'm running into the internet's limitations. I've typed a bunch of replies, I've already gotten into an argument and the only thing I've learned from this thread, that I didn't already know is:

"Bridges tend to be MUCH more analysis intensive and some of the smartest engineers I have ever worked with work on this side. Buildings tend to me less analytic but are driven by tighter schedules and budgets. But even this is a gross stereotype that probably doesn't factor in all of the projects. The point is, viewing one as being easier/harder than the other is probably not an accurate assessment." This was posted by kylesito, a structural engineer, so thank you kyle.

As for the last post, from a Nuclear Engineer...dude, I don't even know how to reply to you. I'll say this, if you have nothing really useful to say, don't say it. After that, go take care of your bosses NEEDS, preferably in all caps with bold font. Unless you're trolling me, in which case, get a life.

By the way rakooc, think logically for a moment here. To take care of your bosses NEEDS, you need to have a job first. As an employee, you're best positioned to take care of his/her NEEDS when you like your job and it aligns with your overall career goals, i.e. the definition of a win-win situation, i.e. a win for you and your boss.

Therefore, to position myself for such a win-win job, I am on this forum, asking structural engineers for advice. This way, I pick the right job, like it, and can really take care of someone's NEEDS.

 

[ukbridge]

I'd probably describe myself as a Bridge Engineer, but unless you work for a very large organisation who has their own specific team you're unlikely to ever get just bridge work as opposed to building engineering. If you work for a small-medium company like mine you'll do lots of other stuff like retaining walls, temporary works, tunnels, assessments and so forth - you're unlikely to just get bridges.

In terms of pay, as with most other non-oil/gas civil engineering the pay is reasonable. I don't know if you get paid more as a building or bridge engineer, but I don't think theres any massive difference. I say reasonable because although your pay will be better than say the average office worker, teacher or similar, but mediocre compared to other engineering disciplines, the financial industry etc which requires many of the same skills ambitious structural engineers must have but paid far better! There's a good article on pay here in the UK

http://sharpeneer.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/civil-engineer-future-salary-vs-student-loan/

, from the perspective of a consultant.

With regards to the future its always difficult to tell, but we haven't been short of bridge detailed designs/tenders recently. There are many highway and rail bridges on the verge of becoming structurally inadequate, growth from the middle east/china etc, all I know is we arent going to stop building bridges anytime soon. With respect to job security, it really depends on how aggressive companies grow. At some stage there may be a bad year, and you could be made redundant if the demand just isn't there that year.

In terms of job satisfaction, I simultaneously love and loathe it. After 2 years my gripes are:
- low pay,
-lack of real managers (which in small-medium companies are engineers winging it, some who do it well and some who are awful at it),
- having to do my own CADwork sometimes because it is increasingly difficult to good a good draftsperson cheaply, and having to fight to get resources sometimes
- frequent overtime
- frustration with some architects/contractors on the phone,
- Adoption of BIM, during this awkward early phase.

Pros
- The obvious gratification of seeing something you designed erected and completed.
- Think bridges are probably the "coolest" part of engineering (I don't want to start any wars!)
- Fun setting up drawing
- Giving your brain a good work out during complex challenges.
- Working with such a large variety of structural forms, arches, trusses, cable structures etc etc as a bridge engineer you will really learn so much about different parts of structural engineering.

I think these would apply if I was a building engineer too. The ones that obviously don't are what sways it for me. Again I come back to what I said, if you think you have an obvious passion jump right into it whether its building or bridge engineering, it really does come down to personal preference.

 

[bridgebuster]

I got my BS 35 years ago today. While in college I assumed that I'd end up as a building engineer. The economy wasn't doing well so I wound up becoming a bridge engineer for a government agency; stayed there for a few years then moved on to the private sector. It's been interesting; I've never regretted going into the bridge discipline.

 

[gendna2]

Thank you for the advice.

 

[MrHershey]

Go with what's more interesting to you. No one here (or anywhere) can or should answer what you should do with your life. Do what interests you and it'll work out fine.

 

[Rainbowtrout]

I am still an EIT and most likely have less work experience than you. That being said, here are my thoughts.

Read

http://www.asce.org/uploadedFiles/s... of Structural Engineering Oct 16 2013(2).pdf

This article really helps me to clarify some of my issues on the profession.

If you are smart enough and hardworking enough, you don't need to worry about job security that much. I think you are over-worrying it and I don't want that to affect your decision making.

There will always be challenges no matter where you work. People look at situations very differently and the smart ones see the problems before everybody else. I get my satisfaction by thinking thoroughly and being challenged. I know if one day I stop feeling that way, its probably time for me to move on to a different array of projects.

I know you are asking about pay. Honestly I chose this profession for the prestige. Everyone has different values. I would like to think highly of myself and make tangible contributions to the society - and that's why I picked structural engineering. And I am proud of it despite not making as much as some of my peers. That being said, I don't have a family to feed and I don't have luxury hobbies. Again, don't let the pay issue play too much a role. I think if you are smart enough and you are not chasing big money, life will treat you well.