Structural definition for stormwater?

[ACtrafficengr]

NY State's General Permit for stormwater control says:

Qualified Inspector - means a person that is knowledgeable in the principles and practices of erosion and sediment control, such as a licensed Professional Engineer, Certified Professional in Erosion and Sediment Control (CPESC), Registered Landscape Architect, or other Department endorsed individual(s).
...
Note: Inspections of any post-construction stormwater management practices that include structural components, such as a dam for an impoundment, shall be performed by a licensed Professional Engineer.

This makes sense, but doesn't give any guidance on what is considered "structural." I'd think it would cover stormwater practices that could cause a risk to the public if there was a major failure, such as a breached dam or a sinkhole from a collapsed infiltration system beneath a parking lot. Out regional Department of Environmental Protection seems to think it's much broader, and basically implied our CPESC cant do final inspections. I don't see why he couldn't inspect wet swales or checkdams, for example.

I'd like to hear your experiences and interpretations.

 

[bimr]

Why don't you contact the writer of the permit and ask for there opinion?

 

[ACtrafficengr]

We may have to do that, but maybe going over the head of the official we have to work with shouldn't be our first resort.

 

[racookpe1978]

Bridge or culvert or sidewalk or walkway over a stormwater drain pot, retention walls around a drain pit, erosion control structure or liners for a drain pit overflow path. Guardrails or supports for any of those.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

racookpe, yeah, things that would normally be considered structures. That's what I would think, but we're dealing with the bureaucratic mind. There's no telling what goes on in there....

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

stormwater just uses "structural" weird. google "structural stormwater bmps" and you will get many hits of published standards that refer to all kinds of things that wouldn't normally be considered structural. some are actually a little structural from an engineering perspective. still..... a detention pond with a berm have a much better chance of getting signed off on by a Civil Site Egr or a Geotech Egr manager for a testing firm than they do a structural engineer.

 

[chicopee]

Have checked for definitions in applicable rules and regulations?

 

[Ron]

AC...I think the same as you and racookpe....structure means any structure in the stormwater management system.

 

[darthsoilsguy2]

from what i can tell structural stormwater bmps just means anything that has to be built to deal with stormwater. could be just a simple roadside ditch.

 

[Drew08]

The New York State Standards and Specifications for Erosion and Sediment Control has three sections dealing with E&S measures:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/water_pdf/bluebook.pdf

Section 3 Vegetative Measures
Section 4 Biotechnical Measures
and Section 5 Structural Measures

I think it is pretty obvious an item appearing in Section 5 can be considered structural. A landscape architect is certainly qualified to design and inspect proper plantings and sod installation, but PE is qualified to inspect items requiring an engineered design, which are those items appearing in Section 5.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

Drew, the 2016 edition of that manual changed the chapter titles and no longer uses the term "Structural measures."

http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/29066.html

Section 3 - Erosion Control Part 1 Runoff Control
Section 4 - Erosion Control Part 2 Soil Stabilization
Section 5 - Sediment Control

I've looked through the various manuals and the general permit, and if they define "structure" or "structural practice," I've missed it.