Structural design and drafting quotation 1

[Cyrus46]

Hi Gentlemen,

recently I got an opportunity to design a 5 story residential condominium.
The developer is a friend of mine and he wants me to do the structural design and drawings.
The existing project includes a 4 story residential condominium on one story concrete slab on concrete columns.
This condominium is more than 8000 Sq.ft
Now the question is that how much is the cost of design and drafting per sq.ft?

 

[jayrod12]

This was brought up in a previous thread. I believe it was somewhere in the range of $0.70-$1.20 /sq ft. However I am unsure whether that number would include drafting or not.

 

[Cyrus46]

Jayrod12,
I appreciate for your prompt posting.

 

[Cyrus46]

Please gentlemen,
Is there anybody helping for this price with or without drafting?

 

[TLHS]

Man, residential and low rise engineering costs always shock me. I guess the average building like that is pretty straightforward, especially once you have a few examples in your back pocket, but comparing that to the estimates you'd have working for a large industrial client or institution is just a different world entirely.

 

[theonlynamenottaken]

Wow. I'm with you TLHS. This is precisely why I won't do new commercial or residential building design anymore. How can you even cover your liability by designing a new building for $9.6k even without drawings included? This industry has had a "rule of thumb" hourly rate of $150/hr for over 25 years because of this line of thinking, meanwhile attorneys and doctors have almost doubled their rates. Charge what your profession is worth, not what the surrounding industries want.

 

[msquared48]

The rate I quoted in a previous thread mentioned was what I have heard others doing similar projects for in past years. That has probably gone down due to the "bidding" process we now have to engage in to get the jobs. I agree that needs to change, but there are still jobs out there where this is not the case, just much harder to find.

I have always quoted project fees three ways and averaged my bid based on the current market and my costs. Sometimes I passed. Many times I did not get the project.

1. I went by a straight percentage of the estimated cost of the structure, considering e3ngineering, drafting (or the lack of it), the complexity, size, and repetition of structure. These are gut calls based on experience.

2. I would itemize and assign ho9urs and hourly rates to all the different tasks and sum up the total, and

3. I would figure up the number of drafted sheets that would be needed for the project, assign a $ per sheet value, and sum the total.

Then I would look at all three and determine what I thought was reasonable. If they did not like it, I would move on. Never dickered.

Quite frankly, If I heard that others were bidding on the job, I would either refuse to give a bid for whatever trumped-up reason, or just give a very high number without taking my normal time to create the bid. Surprisingly, sometimes I did get the job.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)

 

[mtu1972]

I completely agree with Mike's process.

I never had my own company, but one of the commercial/industrial consultants I worked for had the same three methods of estimating. At the project estimating level we had to do 2 of the 3 and compare before sending it up for the Principal's to review/approve. I generally chose 2 and 3 from above. If they gave greatly different numbers, we then added the 1st method in before sending it on.

I've kept hours/drawing documentation since very early in my career. So number 3 becomes matching the hourly rates of the team members to the anticipated drawing hours. Number 2 requires some thought as to the steps required for all of the different parts of the project (building and equipment being supported). This only comes from experience.

gjc

 

[rowingengineer]

I am assuming that is 8000 sq.ft per floor is that right, making for a $50,000 ball park fee or is this a very small building?

The sq.ft rates only work on larger buildings, they are very inaccurate for smaller complex buildings. we use % of estimate build costs as our first ball park and work from there with hourly rates.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[jike]

Condos are some of the RISKIEST buildings to design from a liability exposure standpoint. After the condos are sold, EACH OWNER HAS A POTENTIAL TO SUE YOU. I highly recommend that you first talk to your underwriter to get his input.

HIGHER RISK DEMANDS A HIGHER FEE

MAKE SURE YOUR COVERAGE IS ADEQUATE

HAVE YOUR INSURER ASSIST WITH YOUR CONTRACT.

 

[JedClampett]

jike and others, Cyrus has regurgitated this same question before and got similar advice. If he is bound and determined to jump on this grenade, we've warned him.
The guy is asking a tip website on how to price a project. He can't be further helped.

 

[Brad805]

I agree with rowingeng. Estimate the value of the structure, and use a percentage of that value. The structure for this type of building is likely in the range of 30 - 35% of the construction cost. Trying to figure out all of your hours and bid this rigidly is risky unless you clearly define your scope of works. The type of architects you work with on these projects can vary from good to very very poor. The poor architects lead to you answering a lot of questions or designing a complex structure to deal with all their misalignment as you move thru the levels. In today's age of RFI's you can quickly go into the poor house if you end up with a contractor that needs everything detailed precisely.

 

[msquared48]

Thanks Jed. Noted.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)