Structural Drafting - Software Recommendations 1

[human909]

Hi All,

As the subject says what are your software recommendations for somebody wanting to do basic structural drafting for residential projects? I'd prefer to use something more simple and modern that AutoCAD.

Essentially my workflow will be:
-importing architectural DWGs and stripping them down to the basic layout
-marking up members and other relevant structural details on the drawing
-including standard and sometimes custom connection details as required

While I have heaps of experience in industrial fields and 3D cad, my 2D cad skills aren't great and I'd prefer not to use AutoCAD as my main tool. Though I do have a bunch of templates and AutoCad blocks for purpose I'd prefer to start with something fresh. (Ideally I'll be getting somebody else to do my drafting but I want to build my own capabilities and create a work flow for others to follow.)

So what do other people here use? And what do people recommend?

Thanks, in advance.


A bit of background:

I'm in the midst of branching out into a moderate side hustle to my main structural gig. I've had the good fortune to have acquired a small but successful one man business from an engineer heading towards retirement. Most of the work is residential which for me has a learning curve. Other parts are industrial which has been my expertise for years. I'm inheriting clients, and 30 years of calculation and drawing resources. Both the calculation and drawing resources I want to replace with more modern tools, though I'm happy to run with what is there and works until I am in a position to switch.

 

[SE2607]

You do not state the reason for your aversion to AutoCAD. The benefits are enormous. An AutoCAD LT (2D) is fairly reasonable and, since you already know ACAD, there is no learning curve.

You mention you may get someone else to do your drafting. You will find the resource pool familiar with ACAD much larger than any other platform.

That being said, to answer your question, when I first started, right after the stone age, I got DesignCAD:

https://imsidesign.com/products/designcad/designcad-2d-2022

As the promotion states, the learning curve is short, it will import ACAD drawings and PDFs and is extremely reasonable.

Good luck on your new side hustle.

 

[Eng16080]

I'm perhaps in a similar position as you, being that I'll likely be starting my own company in a few months. I prefer AutoCAD, as that's what I've been using for the last 20 years and can use effectively. If cost were a major concern, I would look at getting AutoCAD LT. I might also look into using BricsCAD or IntelliCAD. I would expect that draftspeople as a whole are most experienced using AutoCAD. In addition, most people you'll be collaborating with (architects, builders, etc.) are likely using some type of Autodesk product. There will be headaches in using something that is not the norm. I think you'll just need to weigh the pros and cons.

I recently purchased the Infrastructure Design Suite from Autodesk, which includes AutoCAD, Revit, and about 30 other programs (most of which I'll never install) for about $3,600. Although I dislike Revit, it's beneficial to have for projects where the architect is using it.

 

[human909]

You do not state the reason for your aversion to AutoCAD. The benefits are enormous. An AutoCAD LT (2D) is fairly reasonable and, since you already know ACAD, there is no learning curve.

My 2D skills with AutoCAD are poor so there is a learning curve. I find the interface clunky and antiquated. Sure if I've used it for decades the I would see no reason for change. But I haven't and I'd prefer to learn newer and more simple tool.

That being said, to answer your question, when I first started, right after the stone age, I got DesignCAD:

https://imsidesign.com/products/designcad/designca...

As the promotion states, the learning curve is short, it will import ACAD drawings and PDFs and is extremely reasonable.

Good luck on your new side hustle.

I'll have a look. And thanks for the good wishes.

In addition, most people you'll be collaborating with (architects, builders, etc.) are likely using some type of Autodesk product. There will be headaches in using something that is not the norm. I think you'll just need to weigh the pros and cons

For single occupancy residential I'll mostly be using PDFs, I wouldn't expect my downstream users to need DWGs. I'll leave the that to the achitects.

Don't get me wrong. I'm extremely experienced in using and manipulating multiple formats especially 3D, I was a design draftperson. But for this sort of residential work I was something light and fast.

 

[human909]

At the moment I'm looking mostly at PDF type editors with some extra oomphf. With many you can manipulate layers exported from DWGs, and drawing and annotating is generally far easier. Bluebeam Revu is an obvious package to consider but I'm open to other opinions and options.

Maybe I have an unjustified aversion to AutoCad. However unlike some people here I haven't been using it for 20+ years. I've never drafted in AutoCAD and have only used it as a stepping stone when moving between various formats or transferring/receiving information to/from clients.

 

[SE2607]

At the moment I'm looking mostly at PDF type editors with some extra oomphf.

I recently had a client (home owner) who gave me a floor plan created in PDF. I'm assuming BlueBeam. It was very detailed! I was really impressed, although I'm sure it would take me a lot longer time to draw a floor plan in BlueBeam than ACAD, but that's only due to my relative experience in the two software packages. FYI, a BlueBeam subscription is close to the cost of an ACAD LT subscription.

One of the problems with ACAD, particularly with people who have used it a long time (myself included) tend to use the program the same way as when they first learned it. In my case, that was AutoCAD 12 (DOS!) 30 years ago. If you got ACAD LT, I would recommend you pretend you know nothing about ACAD and learn it from scratch using all the new features. IMO, you will be much more productive. I'm trying to learn new features, but I'm fighting ODS (Old Dog Syndrome). My analogy is someone who rode motorcycles as a teenager, got away from them when marriage and kids arrived, and are now wanting to get back into them. They are the most dangerous people on the road! The new motorcycles have better suspension, better tires, ABS, etc., and at the same time, the rider has degraded motor skills and reaction time. I always recommend a basic motorcycle riding course for those people, but few take me up on my advice.

 

[Celt83]

For PDF work your looking at Bluebeam, Adobe, Foxit, Drawboard. Concepts could be also be used for this purpose but with a few extra steps. All of these products have some form of measuring tool and a good suite of markup tools.

For some simple 2D Drafting work you could try QCAD or LibreCAD both come with a learning curve but are free. AutoCAD LT isn't as bloated as the full version but is still significantly slower than ACAD 2006/7.

 

[human909]

Yeah BlueBeam isn't cheap! And there are dozens of other PDF packages out there that do 90% of what I need out of BlueBeam.

In my case, that was AutoCAD 12 (DOS!) 30 years ago. If you got ACAD LT, I would recommend you pretend you know nothing about ACAD and learn it from scratch using all the new features. IMO, you will be much more productive. I'm trying to learn new features, but I'm fighting ODS (Old Dog Syndrome).

I'm downloading ACAD LT trial now, I might as well give it a shot.

Cost of full ACAD isn't a problem as I have that along with a full suite of Autodesk Products, (Inventor, Recap, Navisworks, 11 different flavours of AutoCAD but not LT.

For PDF work your looking at Bluebeam, Adobe, Foxit, Drawboard. Concepts could be also be used for this purpose but with a few extra steps.

I'll have another look at Adobe as well. Foxit is my current everyday use for reading, annotating and measuring. I use Drawboard for stylus annotation.

I'm mostly happy with my workflow in my industrial work. But I'm trying to streamline things for residential. Thanks for all the tips.

 

[Brad805]

If you can use Inventor, LT will be simple. While it has endless options, about all you need is the basics. Having someone help setup some nice model space/paper space templates will speed up the process immensely. Having a good knowledge of controlling annotation settings in paper space is a huge time saver.

I don't get why anyone in the drawing world would use anything but bluebeam for PDF manipulation. It is far from perfect, but with Extreme you can have all sorts of review tools to paste at anytime. The best tools in BB for what you are doing with be the "G" command and the cut options. Using the G command you can grab an exact .pdf snip, paste where you want, flatten, and then cut anything out you do not want. It is very quick, and remains 100% scalable when you are done. So long as the original drawing is using a standard MS font, you can make your drawing look like it was created in CAD. I am not sure how many programs have the same. I was at a clients office a few days ago and tried using Adobe again. ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

 

[dik]

I use Bricscad, a really good AutoCAD alternative. I don't know how it currently is; you used to be able to buy copies, and not just a license. When I bought it originally it was nearly half the price of AutoCAD LT and about 99% compatible with the full blown AutoCAD... with better programming capability. I've used it with 90M 3D files, edited them and they were readable in full blown AutoCAD.

I'm not a CAD operator and only use it for small projects and am currently about 10 releases out of date. I use Release 13, Platinum edition... I think it's up to release 20 something.

Look into it, it used to be really great.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Craig_H]

I also use BricsCAD and quite like it. I purchased standalone licenses for our office and I do pay for maintenance (upgrades and support). Their support is quite good and I find it worthwhile. The costs are quite reasonable. I have not tried their BIM product but am very curious how it would interface with Revit. More and more architects are using Revit on smaller and smaller projects - I feel like 2D drafting is on borrowed time (and am worried about the switch!).


For PDFs, I have used Bluebeam in the past for virtual page-turn sessions with the entire design team, and that is very valuable. The costs for it, however, are steep. For day to day markups, I use PDF Xchange Editor which is much cheapter and powerful enough for most "vanilla" markups, measurements, etc.

 

[RipPECity]

+1 for BricsCAD. I actually prefer it significantly over AutoCAD. I had significant crash issues with AutoCAD (it hated trying to underline something in a bulleted list) and have never had a crash with BricsCAD.

 

[Aesur]

Cost of full ACAD isn't a problem as I have that along with a full suite of Autodesk Products, (Inventor, Recap, Navisworks, 11 different flavours of AutoCAD but not LT.

LT is just the lite version of the full version, basically, it's the exact same without 3D (unless you know the viewport tricks) and without custom scripts, otherwise the buttons, ribbon, etc are exactly the same. I don't think you will find a software that is simpler or more modern than AutoCAD honestly. Our drafters have full version, our engineers use LT and it works well because it's the industry standard and is simple to use. With AutoCAD you may want to try using the Ribbon layer (more modern, but to me annoying) or the classic layout with buttons and toolbars (my preference); additionally in time learn the keyboard shot cuts, there are a lot, but in reality you use maybe 10 to 15 max for 90% of the work. Your basic commands will be, line, offset, copy, paste, trim, extend, circle, erase, explode, move, mirror, scale, chamfer, fillet, mtext, and quickleader (or leader), all of which are in 2 toolbars, the 3rd toolbar that is critical is dimensioning.

 

[SinStrucEng]

DraftSight for me. Love it. Easier to use than AutoCAD LT and cheap. Great tool with a lot of capability but "dumb enough" that it's not too hard to get used to. Also almost identical to AutoCAD.

 

[human909]

If you can use Inventor, LT will be simple. While it has endless options, about all you need is the basics.

Yeah I probably just need to get over the mental hurdle and bite the bullet. Coming from Inventor there are aspects of AutoCAD that frustrate me, so maybe if I just get over them then that will help. (The odd thing is I know quite a few 'advanced' techniques of model manipulation ACAD, but basic drawing is what I have never done.)

Having someone help setup some nice model space/paper space templates will speed up the process immensely. Having a good knowledge of controlling annotation settings in paper space is a huge time saver.

Good idea.

I don't get why anyone in the drawing world would use anything but bluebeam for PDF manipulation. It is far from perfect, but with Extreme you can have all sorts of review tools to paste at anytime. The best tools in BB for what you are doing with be the "G" command and the cut options. Using the G command you can grab an exact .pdf snip, paste where you want, flatten, and then cut anything out you do not want. It is very quick, and remains 100% scalable when you are done. So long as the original drawing is using a standard MS font, you can make your drawing look like it was created in CAD. I am not sure how many programs have the same. I was at a clients office a few days ago and tried using Adobe again.

Thanks again for that advice. Yeah I've head BB is the best tool for the job. Again I probably just need to learn the skills to harness the power. But they will be usefull skills in all areas of my work.

I use Bricscad, a really good AutoCAD alternative.

Yeah it looks that way, it seems cheap. And although it mimics AutoCAD it seems simpler and less clunky.

I feel like 2D drafting is on borrowed time (and am worried about the switch!).

I agree. But there is probably 10years at least in 2D. I've grown up in the 3D drafting world which is part of the reason why stepping backwards is clunky and annoying. But for the basic residential stuff it is what I need.

Some of our steel erectors actually PREFER 3D models on their phone to drawings (paper or PDF). On one project I gave them the source 3D model and once they figured out how to use it on their phones they never touched the 2D drawings!

For day to day markups, I use PDF Xchange Editor which is much cheapter and powerful enough for most "vanilla" markups, measurements, etc.

I'll have a look. BB does seem expensive and I don't expect to need to use the advanced features of BB any time soon.

LT is just the lite version of the full version, basically, it's the exact same without 3D
.....
With AutoCAD you may want to try using the Ribbon layer

Yeah I discovered that. Crossing that off my list as I already have the full version. I'll investigate turning off the ribbon, I've never liked the ribbon interface shift in Office and many other products.

Again thanks for all the responses!

For those that are interested my design tools are (in order of use):

[u]Currently Use[/u]
-SpaceGass			##For frame analysis and connections.  IMO hands down the best in steel in the AU market, probably good elsewhere too.  OK for basic concrete.
-Excel				##for most of my hand calculations, and a few specialise niche spreadsheets that I've created
-Nastran In-CAD (Inventor)	##for FEA of steel mechanical structures (eg vessels, bins, other complicated things)  My Inventor skills make this much easier.
-MathCAD			##great for hand calculations, far better than Excel, but I'm still learning the power of it

[u]Considering Purchasing[/u]
??Ideastatic			##I'm strongly considering aquiring this.  It is game changing for complicated steel connections and has concrete options too.  Expense.
??ClearCalcs			##It does what it says on the box, mostly suitable for residential.  If you are comfortable with your hand or Excel then why change, but ClearCalc seems a good option othewise.

 

[Brad805]

I have used Solidworks a lot and now am stuck with Fusion 360. Sketch based design has some real benefits, so I hear what you are saying between Inventor and CAD.

 

[milkshakelake]

Last time I used Bricscad around 2019/2020, it didn't support arrays as well as AutoCAD does. It was make or break for me. No way I'm going to draw like 300 studs or soldier piles. Besides that, it's very usable. Slight differences from AutoCAD, which take some time getting used to.

I might revisit it to see if it's fixed. These AutoCAD fees are killing me.

Ribbons are great! I also use a gaming mouse to have macro commands that make drafting a shit ton faster. Binding common keys like move, polyline, copy, etc. When I use AutoCAD on someone else's machine, it feels extremely sluggish because I have to type or click on commands.

 

[DoubleStud]

Paid $1048 for 3 year of AutoCAD LT. Pretty reasonable in my opinion.

 

[dik]

MSL... I've never had any difficulties with arrays...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[milkshakelake]

@dik When I used it, it wasn't easy to change array spacing and edit the items in the array. It's much more intuitive in AutoCAD. I let the BrisCAD customer support know about it, and they said something like "we'll take it into consideration," which means "deal with it" in plain English. Though I'll definitely try again and see if it has been improved.

I liked other things about it, like the speed. AutoCAD is slow AF.