Structural Draftsman 6

[PJD]

It sure is hard to find good structural draftspeople. I know that the steel detailing industry is going through a semi-crises with maintaining qualified detailers and wonder if drafting as a whole is becoming scarce. Anybody have any good tips on finding qualified structural draftsmen?

 

[hasanh]

Whenever I have a hard time finding a draftsman. I do the drafting, in addition to the design, myself. I have found that it decreases drafting errors considerably.

 

[JC]

There are good draftspeople out there! The problem is keeping them busy. A good draftsperson, working with AutoCad or MicroStation, can keep two or three engineers busy. All that is needed is plenty of work. Keep looking!

 

[hasanh]

I am not familiar with microstation. But, I found it the opposite with autocad. I was able to keep 2-3 good draftsmen busy at the same time. The trick was to have them do work for you, so as to help you cut time you spend. Such as preparing details, where you only modify that detail as per your design instead of preparing that detail from A to Z.<br>
After all the engineer's hourly rate is much higher than the draftsman's.

 

[faf]

Some Community Colleges have drafting courses. Also, there are some small private schools, such as Hamilton College that train draftsmen. Doing it yourself might cut down on errors but you can't make any money and you should be out looking for work instead.

 

[hasanh]

faf, yes you have a point there. But nevertheless, I believe that an engineer should be proficient in drafting. That saves time and reduces errors.

 

[Ginger]

I disagree that it reduces errors. As a professional engineer my time is best spent in research, creating and developing designs and problem solving. I would prove to be an extremely expensive draughtsman if I spent time on the CAD terminal playing around with drawings. I feel that engineers should be thoroughly grounded in draughtsmanship whilst at University. This gives them an appreciation of the CAD operator's requirements from the engineer for drawing production. CAD operators spend all day drawing and are therefore quicker, more accurate, more adaptable, know more CAD shortcuts, have time to organise standard details etc etc than does an engineer with part time experience. If we take our eye off the ball and start messing with drawings rather than forwarding the profession in terms of creative thought then we will end up being further devalued and being ousted from another area of engineering (as we have been removed from engineering financial management by QS's). Here endeth my soap box lecture !!<br>
<br>
Ginger

 

[faf]

Well said Ginger. I'm a very old structural engineer that drew my own designs 45 yrs. ago and also did steel and reinforcing detailing along with design and drafting and doing long hand calculations and using a slide rule....(ever used one?) But those days are gone forever with the advent of the computer and CAD. Engineers that do their own drafting might do that when first starting out but the first thing to do after you nail down your first or second clients is get a CAD operator and go out and sell more work. You can still check your draftman's work as you would your own.

 

[hasanh]

It seems, I am waging a loosing argument here. I am neither a newly graduate employee, nor am I an employer and nor do I have 45 years of experience. I am at the middle of the road, i.e. 15-20 years experience.<br>
Probably, what I said earlier, is not suitable for an employee in a firm, where it is not financially acceptable for the engineer to do the work of a draftsman who is paid less. <br>
It may not be also suitable for an owner of a small consultancy, who has to divide his time between doing and checking designs and getting new jobs.<br>
What I said earlier is suitable for me because I am a free-lancer. My clients are a couple of architectural firms. It is their responsibility to go out and get new jobs. New clients for me mean employing not just draftsmen but engineers as well, in other words opening an office.<br>
<br>
Maybe, my opinion is applicable more to the area I operate in which are the Gulf States. Not the UK or USA.<br>

 

[PJD]

Thanks for all the entertainment but can any body help with my initial question? Where do you find trained structural draftsmen whithout stealing them from other firms?<br>
<br>
By the way, hasanh, if your doing your own drafting, your loosing money.

 

[bb29510]

you want the best draftsman money can buy without stealing from another firm. As a civil draftsman I can tell you.You will not find good people directly out of school. You want people with good work habits and 5-10 years experince. It is real easy, start paying couple dollar more a hour than anybody in town and they will find you.If they cannot cut the mustard, replace that quick. You will end up with the best. The people that are good know they are good and will follow the money. Why should I leave my job here to work for less with you. Pay the money, vacation, medical and they will come. You have to market your company has the best in town to work for. A person that gets paid five dollar a hour is going to do five dollar a hour worth of work. You get what you pay for

 

[JC]

Today's Proverb:<br>
<br>
Good draftsman are stolen from other firms by offering more money!

 

[Ginger]

I agree with brownbagg. Having lost our two senior CAD draughtsmen to higher salaried posts in other companies we advertised in the local and National press for draughtsmen with civil engineering experience. This yielded no replies at all. We had two school leavers left in the department With work piling up and very little experience left in the CAD office we were forced to break the salary policy and offer good money. This immediately netted our current CAD dept manager who has all of the appropriate skills and is able to train our two younger CAD men. I'm afraid money does talk and if you want an experienced CAD operator you will have to enter the bear pit with the rest of us armed with your wallet!<br>
<br>
Regards Ginger

 

[hasanh]

How much does a structural draftsman make in your area, whether monthly salary, hourly rate or per drawing?

 

[faf]

By the way, good money also hires good structural engineers

 

[PJD]

A good structural draftsman in my area with 10-20 years experience can write his own ticket, 45-60 k per year.<br>
<br>
Quality doesn't come cheap, nor should it!

 

[asdf]

I have not seen this many posts in all the months I have been visiting. <br>
<br>
I really enjoyed &quot;forwarding the profession in terms of creative thought.&quot; What a joke, all we ever 'design' is what we used on the last job, for the last hundred years. There have been advances in the field, but seldom by creative thought, they have come from competition and necessity, and probably more often by fine tuning and placing our stamp on a jobsite sketch. And as far as salesmanship, who needs to set time aside in a market like this. Unless your reputation succeeds you, or your firm, you should be turning work away. <br>
<br>
Now back to the subject, I personally have had great success hiring State cad operators, and now have six. They are underpaid for their skills, highly trained, most have more field experience than the engineers directing them, and seemingly only seek respect for their efforts. <br>
<br>
And from reading a few of these messages respect for non-engineers seems to be lacking. Don't forget, we stamp the sheets, without much examination more often than not, and trust that our employees have enough respect for us not to do something to ruin our livelihoods.<br>

 

[Ginger]

asdf<br>
<br>
It appears that your company is devoid of capable engineers of any standing if your CAD operators are dictating to your engineers. Obviously, if your engineers are inexperienced then all you are capable of producing is a re-hash of your old designs. If your engineers are simply rubber stamping you CAD operators drawings and trusting to luck that the draughtsmen don't make mistakes then you should take a good look at your PI insurance policy because sooner rather than later you're going to need it.<br>
<br>
In our market we are constantly trying to develop new design ideas in order to stay competetive. We target the more technically challenging work as the standard design market is pretty saturated and cut-throat yielding low margins and we can easily be undercut by smaller companies who have lower overheads.<br>
<br>
Respect for good CAD draughtsmen is not lacking. We all realise how valuable they are and that is why their salaries are rising and we are fighting amongst ourselves to get the good ones. If you have six good operators who are underpaid then hope that they don't read the vacancies page in the technical journals. Our better CAD operators will earn around £20-£22000 per annum.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Ginger

 

[FpMann]

Unfortunately, this appears to be another area rich for cliche dropping . . . if all of you will allow me:<br>
1. &quot;You get what you pay for&quot;<br>
2. &quot;A chain is only as string as its weakest link&quot;<br>
Also, currently (at least in the US Philadelphia area) there is lack of quality designers and an apparent abundance of engineers. Can you say &quot;SUPPLY vs. DEMAND&quot;? <p>Frank<br><a href=mailto:Francis.Mann@Jacobs.com>Francis.Mann@Jacobs.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br>

 

[cad]

Cutting through the foo-fa-rah - and addressing your problem. I'd suggest you contact your local Autodesk User Group (AGUI) and float your job offer there. The better cad operators and programmers congregate there for bettering their skills with Autocad. Your local Autodesk reseller (the folks you bought Autocad from) can put you in contact with them.