Structural Engineer salary advice 1

[RobLo]

Hey all,

Year end reviews are about to come in my office, and I am thinking of asking for a raise (a big one). Before I do, I was wondering if I could get some ideas from fellow structural engineers about the going rate in our market.

I am located in Los Angeles, CA. I'm on my 11th year of experience (residential, industrial, and commerce). I graduated from a well respected UC for my BS and also have a MS from a UC. I also have a PE license. I work in a small office (20 people or so), and after the two principals, I am next in the pecking order. That means I am often tasked with having to oversee and lead the younger engineers in my office, project manage their projects, and run my own projects at the same time.

Currently I am paid $31 an hour, and I get a small bonus at the end of the year (about $2k to $3k). I feel like I am underpaid, but I am just not sure what the market rate is nowadays. What do you all think?

 

[steellion]

Are you actually paid hourly or did you convert it to an hourly rate? A salary of $31 x 40 x 52 = $65k seems quite low to me for location, experience, and responsibility. The bonus is a pittance as well.

The ASCE Salary Survey is a great tool. You can use just about any criteria (location, education, license, responsibility level, or combinations of criteria) to get an idea of the expected salary range in your area. Use this both to get an idea of what to ask for, and ammunition in the negotiation. If you have trusted peers working at other firms in your area, you can get an idea from them how your relative salary stacks up without flat-out asking, "how much do you make?"

Hopefully, with your spot in the pecking order, they are willing to give you a salary that will make you happy. I'm not sure how much you're involved in the business aspect, but it may be a situation in a small firm where they do not have the money to pay you market rate. You have to be prepared that you may have to look for employment elsewhere to capture your market value if their offer does not satisfy you. Good luck!

 

[RobLo]

Steellion,

I am actually paid hourly, so I do get 1.5 for overtime, but $65k base pay feels fairly low to me. Thank you for the tip on ASCE Salary Survey, I never knew those existed until you told me.

 

[GregLocock]

That's slightly less than a raw graduate is paid in automotive.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[oldestguy]

Are you aware of the rate schedule that the company uses when negotiating jobs? Are you aware of the multiplier of your rate that is used to get that number? It may be different there, but considering overhead and other factors, such as fringe benefits, you should know about where you sit in that calculation. These should not be secrets that employees don't know. How much of your week is "production"? With that sort of information, perhaps you will have some leverage. If they don't make you aware of where you sit or what the multiplier is, why not ask? Are you in on any negotiations for jobs? Maybe ask that you be considered for such a role now and then. Do you run into clients out on jobs? Or are you in the office only?
Are yup along on promotion or interviews with possible clients? Sometimes those in your position are asked about charges and jobs may develop, at least in my past experience.

 

[JedClampett]

I know for a fact, unless you're a total load, you're being screwed.
We have offices in California and that's about what we would pay a new graduate with a Bachelor's degree.

 

[CivilEngAus]

$31 an hour for 11 years of experience and being third in seniority at the firm? They are having a laugh at your expense. Most structural engineers with 2 years years experience would be earning more than that.

How could someone third in line at a firm not be aware of the billing rates? It would make it hard to price a job and put together a proposal otherwise...

 

[graybeach]

If your conpany's work is done on a lump sum basis, they are making out like a bandit on you. You should definitely speak up that you are being paid below market. Construction seems to be heating up these days, and you are in a major metropolitan area. Your company must realize that you could probably get a new better paying job pretty easily.

I have been in that boat because I did not negotiate properly when I was first hired at my current job. Finally, I started speaking up and did so fairly often. It paid off because my company made it right when I got a promotion. I work for a public agency, and it took some fineagling for me to get a higher than allowed percentage increase. No one would have done this if I had not spoken up.

 

[jgailla]

You appear to be significantly underpaid. Good luck getting a big raise. They know you'll settle.
The only way to get more money is to switch jobs.

 

[GHartmann]

It is going to be very difficult to get the "big raise" you are looking for after 11 years of "being silent". You have very little negotiating leverage and risk being labeled a "malcontent".

You will also need to consider the benefits package your company has in this age of Obamacare

Your best bet is to try to find something else to get that boost in pay (as jgailla suggested)

 

[RobLo]

Thank you for the replies all, I suspected as much. The company took a massive hit in the recession where almost everyone was laid off, and it seems like they have been using the recession as a crutch when it comes to paying the employees. From the looks of it, it looks like I will have to dust off my resume.

@JedClampett, would you mind telling me your office's name? I might send my resume that way.

@oldestguy & CivilEngAus, I also find it odd that they've never opened their company books to me especially when I have architects calling me to request for proposals.

 

[JedClampett]

Sorry, if everyone knew where Jed worked, all my cohorts would be nit picking my advice.
But you're right. You're not going to get a 1/3 raise to get you to the bare minimum of a ten year employee at the place you're at. And you should get a good laugh when they try to replace you and find out what that costs.
And the funny thing is, I bet they act all hurt when you leave.

 

[rowingengineer]

I would try for the large raise, how you handle asking is the hard part. yes it is easier to go to a new job and get a large increase. Talking to your existing employer in a tough market is hard. they probably haven't made much of a profit since 2008, so that is 6 years of your 11 years in the work place. So yes they are probably trying to get profit back into the company while also being very careful not to let cost grow a the same time, so hence employee wages are suppressed.

I would hope that the guys in my company whom have stuck with me through the tough times would also be willing to talk to me if they felt underpaid. I may not be able to accommodate there wishes, but I defiantly would like to know so i have the opportunity to review my books. however i would hope that most feel like they are paid above their peers, as that is where I aim. We follow our local engineering salary scale very closely.

The way I have gone about my raises in the past is asked the boss to take a look at the books and see if they can find some extra money for me. Simple, it puts he ball in their court. I then email my boss with the categories in my local engineers mag, we have five levels (1 grad, 5 principle), and I ask which level he believes I am and reference only the page of the employment survey that has the categories. this does two things, if they think your a 2 and you think your a 4 you find out quickly why your under paid and then yes you need to find out why your not a 4. if they say your a 4 and your are a 4 then the negotiation when they offer you a poor raise is very easy, "why sir may I ask why your rate me as a 4 but only pay me as a 2?". No harm in asking.

last thing, often hourly people are reviewed based on there total income from the company, so if you work like 50 - 60 hrs a week and are really making a lot more than the above suggests, then I would suggest you need to consider this. Most engineers are expected to work 50hrs a week hence, your equivalent income should be 20,00 higher than above stated value. personally if you came to me and said I want to be paid as per the engineering survey I would say sure no problems, but now your an salary employee and you still have to work the time.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[RobLo]

@rowingengineer, you bring up several good points. If I do calculate a 50 hour work week, which is what I average a week, I do make approximately $20k more. Which brings up my next question, is it normal for engineers to be expected to work a 45 - 50 hour work week? 10 hour work days and / or full day Saturday is the norm for me, but it seems to be a bit extreme. Is this normal for everyone else?

 

[rowingengineer]

yes

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[slickdeals]

Yes, I average 50+ hours of work a week. That includes 10 hour days + 4-8 hours on most weekends. I manage an office of 7 people, so I don't think it's very unusual.

 

[oldestguy]

There is another aspect of this. Assuming you are in contact with clients now and then, even though not negotiating the work and they like your work, consider what it might take to go on our own and solicit work from those clients. Keeping that in mind, you need enough experience and a respected reputation to make the step some day. In my situation, but only after many more years than eleven (all of which were well paid), I "retired". However could not quite retire. Contacted old clients and was amazed at the results. Reasons were many, but satisfaction with my work and the money I saved them seemed to be behind most calls. Word got around and business slowly took off. Of course early times were lean and many hours, but it was the best thing I ever did and should have done it earlier. Operating out of home office made it convenient and helped on taxes also, but demanding of time. You have to be willing to put in a lot more than those 50 hours and that may last for many a year. Grunt work also is involved. I didn't do any advertising, "selling" or promotion other than being active in engineering circles. No listing in the Yellow Pages either.

 

[canwesteng]

I'd look for other work just based on being expected to work 50 hours work weeks as the norm. I usually do 40, had a stretch of four months were I did 50 though, and one week hit 84. All for the project/client construction/shut down requirements though, not because my employer thinks 50 hours is normal.

 

[Ron]

Roblo....to me, being paid on an hourly basis for a licensed professional is a slap in the face. Yes, ultimately we all work on an "hourly" basis, but to get paid in that manner is to relegate our profession to the level of all hourly employees. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being paid hourly; however, in my opinion, it is not how PROFESSIONAL employees should be paid.

You are a professional. You should be paid a reasonable SALARY for your contribution to the company. Working 45 to 50 hours per week is not unreasonable for a salaried professional; however, you should be paid accordingly. I would expect your salary to be in the $80k to $90k range, at least. You should be making about 25 to 35 percent of what your company is charging for your time. For example, if your company is charging $150 per hour for your time, you should be making between about $40 and $55/hr. but on a salaried basis. If they are charging less for your time, think about changing jobs....they don't value a professional engineer's time and are only concerned about treating you and others as a commodity and lining their own pockets as a result.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Salaried, and I work 40 hours per week... anything more and I get paid an hourly rate matching my salary's. I get the work done that needs to be done in 40 hours. If a job requires more than 40 hours on a continual basis, the company needs to look at splitting that job into more than one position and pay each less. This trend towards making one person work an exhaustive number of hours but claim it pays well is silly. You can either pay someone $50k to work 20 hrs/week or pay someone $100k to work 40 hrs/week... but the same logic doesn't continue and allow you to pay someone $200k for 80 hrs/week. There is some middle ground where the extra expense of two people for one job is lost to the market, but that's what businesses are good at, maximizing profit. Maximizing it at the expense of employee welfare is a slippery slope most engineers seems all too happy to allow for an extra few $k in their yearly paycheck.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com