There are some localities that will require an architect OR engineer stamp on all of the architectural drawings. I have been approached multiple times to do this. Like on projects that have no structural engineering nor structural aspects, they want me to "review" and stamp the architectural plans. Has anyone else had any experience in this?
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Structural Engineer stamping Architectural Set 1
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jerseyshore
Structural
I have used the architects plans to take a screen shot and add my company info to sign and seal a single beam or something small the architect asked me to design.
You can't stamp someone else's plans though. That doesn't make any sense. Maybe write a letter saying you reviewed the architectural set and the structure is sufficiently designed or something along those lines.
You can't stamp someone else's plans though. That doesn't make any sense. Maybe write a letter saying you reviewed the architectural set and the structure is sufficiently designed or something along those lines.
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When you say "no structural engineering nor structural aspects" are you referring to simple cosmetic TI's and not new ground up buildings correct?
Each state has their own laws about who can seal what, so it's not a one answer works for all locations here. If there are no structural items and you are not an architect, I don't see how as a licensed professional you can ethically seal something that isn't in your knowledge set. Additionally, I doubt your insurance would cover you for said projects. Another possible issue is the whole "created under your direct supervision" discussion, not sure this would fall into that category unless you are competent in architectural design and requirements (maybe you are).
Normally when I see requests like this they are just wanting a cheaper rubber stamper.
Each state has their own laws about who can seal what, so it's not a one answer works for all locations here. If there are no structural items and you are not an architect, I don't see how as a licensed professional you can ethically seal something that isn't in your knowledge set. Additionally, I doubt your insurance would cover you for said projects. Another possible issue is the whole "created under your direct supervision" discussion, not sure this would fall into that category unless you are competent in architectural design and requirements (maybe you are).
Normally when I see requests like this they are just wanting a cheaper rubber stamper.
I've done this before. The building inspector wanted an engineer's stamp on every sheet including the architectural plans. On those plans, below the stamp, I added the note: "Structure Only." Another firm in the area, in dealing with that same town, has done the same. It seemed a bit silly considering that I was already stamping the structural sheets and there was no structural information conveyed on the arch. plans that I wasn't already accounting for.
Just to be clear, I was only stamping off on the structure, not on architectural aspects of the design, like egress, etc. I wouldn't want to be liable for that.
Just to be clear, I was only stamping off on the structure, not on architectural aspects of the design, like egress, etc. I wouldn't want to be liable for that.
When I first started engineering, I could seal Architectural and Engineering drawings... not so the case, anymore. I've done numerous 20 storey buildings without an architect involved.
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There is a one-size fits all states answer. The answer is no.
There are a few states that allow "incidental practice" of Architecture (I forget which ones, I came across it during licensure, maybe Louisiana, where I am not currently licensed), but if there's no structural backbone to the project I don't see how that would fly under that provision. Most states require you to practice within your "area of competency" and that's as detailed as they get. I know of at least one Architect/P.E. up where I am, but we've not met.
I've done some sole licensed designer projects, but they were all roof-oriented, roof drainage, and tapered insulation attachments, so it was all very components and cladding and civil/drainage kinds of stuff.
I haven't done any change of occupancy, ADA or things like that.
There are states that have provisions for something like adequately reviewing the work of others, then incorporating it into your design sort of procedures but I don't see how flat out architectural drawings would fit in, beyond, say, floor-to-floor heights or overall building dimensions and things like that.
This is a problematic practice, prone to trouble.
There are a few states that allow "incidental practice" of Architecture (I forget which ones, I came across it during licensure, maybe Louisiana, where I am not currently licensed), but if there's no structural backbone to the project I don't see how that would fly under that provision. Most states require you to practice within your "area of competency" and that's as detailed as they get. I know of at least one Architect/P.E. up where I am, but we've not met.
I've done some sole licensed designer projects, but they were all roof-oriented, roof drainage, and tapered insulation attachments, so it was all very components and cladding and civil/drainage kinds of stuff.
I haven't done any change of occupancy, ADA or things like that.
There are states that have provisions for something like adequately reviewing the work of others, then incorporating it into your design sort of procedures but I don't see how flat out architectural drawings would fit in, beyond, say, floor-to-floor heights or overall building dimensions and things like that.
This is a problematic practice, prone to trouble.
jerseyshore
Structural
Eng16080, that still seems risky to me and I'm curious to what a lawyer would say. I don't think anyone's insurance company is going to cover them signing and sealing someone else's drawing. Any time I've used the architectural PDF's for a submission I remove their titleblock and add my own info.
DaveAtkins
Structural
I disagree with some of lexpatrie's comments. I am a Licensed SE in Illinois. In Illinois, SE's can stamp architectural work, and Architects can stamp structural work. I am also a PE in Wisconsin. Again, the lines are blurry - PE's can stamp architectural work, and Architects can stamp structural work. The key is you cannot stamp something not produced by you or under your direct supervision.
The situation proposed by the OP is what is known as "plan stamping," and it is not legal. If the OP wants to stamp architectural work produced by someone not under his supervision, they would need to review and redraw everything. If they are not comfortable with reviewing the type of construction, egress, restrooms, etc., then they should pass.
DaveAtkins
The situation proposed by the OP is what is known as "plan stamping," and it is not legal. If the OP wants to stamp architectural work produced by someone not under his supervision, they would need to review and redraw everything. If they are not comfortable with reviewing the type of construction, egress, restrooms, etc., then they should pass.
DaveAtkins
jerseyshore, I didn't see any risk in stamping those plans considering that they were well coordinated with my structural plans and the stamp was limited to the structure anyway. I appreciate the feedback, though. Should this come up again, perhaps I should give it more thought. Speaking with a lawyer and/or insurance company is probably a good idea.
I feel the urge to comment despite not practising in the US.
A fair bit comes down to what you are willing to risk and what you are actually signing and stating.
I frenquently get requested to certify or sign things that are at the edge of my purview. I'm not the only engineer being asked this nor doing this.
Your signature is worth money. It is a judgement call against ethics and risk.
Charge appropriately if you are doing it. Run away if the ethics or risk is not palatable.
A fair bit comes down to what you are willing to risk and what you are actually signing and stating.
I frenquently get requested to certify or sign things that are at the edge of my purview. I'm not the only engineer being asked this nor doing this.
Your signature is worth money. It is a judgement call against ethics and risk.
Charge appropriately if you are doing it. Run away if the ethics or risk is not palatable.
If you know enough about architecture and it's allowed in the jurisdiction, then this seems ok.
That said, I don't know any structural engineers who seem qualified. They would be sealing designs outside their expertise, which is a no no, obviously.
That said, I don't know any structural engineers who seem qualified. They would be sealing designs outside their expertise, which is a no no, obviously.
StrucPatholgst
Structural
New Jersey has a pretty clear law called the Professional Services Act, and it defines who can prepare and stamp what. In the case of using an architect's floor plan or elevation as the basis of a structural sketch or print, you can use the pertinent portions as long as you reference the original work (much like a site plan can refer to the licensed surveyor's original work).
Also in NJ, a PE can prepare and seal plans for any engineered system (electrical, plumbing, HVAC, fire, structural). That covers a lot of territory. I do plenty of residential stuff, and the only time the towns balk or I push back is when envelope changes are at play, like ground-up or double-up additions. I refer them to an architect for those items or anything having to do with changes to the building envelope.
Even with that said, there are towns in NJ where they want an architect to seal residential HVAC duct plans or plumbing risers, which I think is crazy. East Orange is well known for that.
Also in NJ, a PE can prepare and seal plans for any engineered system (electrical, plumbing, HVAC, fire, structural). That covers a lot of territory. I do plenty of residential stuff, and the only time the towns balk or I push back is when envelope changes are at play, like ground-up or double-up additions. I refer them to an architect for those items or anything having to do with changes to the building envelope.
Even with that said, there are towns in NJ where they want an architect to seal residential HVAC duct plans or plumbing risers, which I think is crazy. East Orange is well known for that.
milkshakelake
Structural
I don't stamp other people's architectural drawings, but I do some small scale architectural work on my own (like up to 5 stories) and seal it. I know quite a bit about zoning, and I have trained architects who do the work. It's not just them doing all the work; I'm involved in every aspect. It didn't come for free. I'm not trained as an architect, but I studied it and paid for training from local architects. I'm not a good architect, but I know enough. So under those circumstances, I think it's okay.
For the majority of structural engineers that don't know about architecture, it seems awfully risky to seal someone else's drawings without knowing anything about it.
For the majority of structural engineers that don't know about architecture, it seems awfully risky to seal someone else's drawings without knowing anything about it.
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