Structural Engineering in Illinois

[hemiv]

Hi all.

I'm licensed as PE in a few states for the company I work for, including Illinois. I was taking a look at the Structural Engineering Act, and wanted to confirm with some folks here that there are absolutely no exemptions to this act? I read in an IDFPR manual that single family homes are not even exempt, but what about agricultural buildings? Or for that matter, garden sheds or a backyard deck....

 

[JedClampett]

I'm an SE in Illinois and I think Architects can seal residential, but I'm not sure about agricultural or ancillary structures. And I don't know about other disciplines. I'd recommended calling the state, but from my past experiences with them, you'll:
[ul]
[li]Not get an answer.[/li]
[li]And want to blow your own brains out.[/li]
[/ul]

 

[hemiv]

Yes, I tried to calling them for a question on getting my license by reciprocity, but no one ever picked up the phone.

The project at hand is the Corp of Engineers is requesting a sealed drawing for a permit application. Even though it's an agricultural structure, I don't think I'm legally able to do it.

For reference,

https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1347

 

[dauwerda]

My understanding is that there are zero exemptions, if it needs to be engineered, the engineering needs to be by a licensed SE. Illinois is one of two (Hawaii is the other) full practice act states, meaning anything that is structural needs to be designed by an SE.

Illinois in general does still allow for some building following prescriptive codes that does not need to have an engineer involved each local jurisdiction may have different requirements for what exactly does or doesn't need to be engineered however.

 

[r13]

See the linked doc, pay attention to P9-11,

https://www.idfpr.com/forms/DPR/Design_Code_Manual.pdf

 

[phamENG]

USACE? Is it on federal property? If so, you likely don't need to be registered in Illinois. I've done a fair amount of federal work (Navy) and as long as you have a stamp, they're usually good with it. For instance, as an EIT the firm I worked for did a few small projects in California on a couple of Navy Bases - nobody in my office was registered in CA but the Navy didn't care as long as it was code compliant and sealed by a PE registered somewhere in the US.

 

[dauwerda]

If they need a permit as the OP noted it sounds like it is going through a local jurisdiction - who I would expect does care which state you are licensed in.

 

[r13]

USACE has many projects on public (non-federal) lands, water ways, that require local permits. No exemption there.

 

[hemiv]

dauwerda - that's my understanding as well.

r13 - that's the IDFPR manual I referenced. It doesn't say anything about farm buildings for SE (it does for architecture, though) I'm talking the silence to mean that they are likewise non-exempt from the Act.

phamENG - project is in a wetland in Illinois. My assumption is that both Illinois and USACE have jurisdiction. I agree that USACE won't care, but if some reason local/state enforcement got involved I could be held to the state law as well.

 

[hemiv]

r13 - to me it looks like it doesn't matter one bit about local requirements. There may not be any code enforcement in this area (very likely there isn't), but it still constitutes the practice of structural engineering within the jurisdiction of Illinois

 

[r13]

Did you read "Illinois Architecture Practice Act" on P.9? And, yes, if the land is Illinois' territory. But then you need to contact the state agency before any works.

 

[phamENG]

Fair enough. I agree that if the project is on shared lands or is otherwise under the authority of an Illinois based governing body they would care - just trying help if that wasn't the case.

 

[dauwerda]

There may not be any code enforcement in this area (very likely there isn't), but it still constitutes the practice of structural engineering within the jurisdiction of Illinois

This is getting into a grey area that I have been curious about as well (in general, not just for Illinois). Illinois does not have any statewide building code (law), they leave it up to local jurisdictions to adopt building codes and enact them into law. So if you are in an area that does not have any type of building code adopted, technically anyone could build whatever they wanted and it wouldn't be required to be engineered.

But, just because it doesn't have to be engineered, as an owner, I may still want some reassurance that it is being built up to current standard practices and would meet the requirements of the IBC. So, I hire an engineer to provide a design - this is my choice as an owner, not a requirement by any law. Does said engineer still have to be licensed in that state to legally provide the design? What if I just hired a contractor and depended on him to provide a design? Would the contractor not be breaking any laws but the engineer would (specifically if said engineer is a licensed PE but not SE)? Curious to hear others thoughts.

 

[r13]

You'll be stopped by state trooper if you dug a hole anywhere inside Illinois without permit

 

[hemiv]

r13 - I did, and noted the exemptions. But these only apply to the practice of architecture, they don't have the same exemptions under the SE Act.

phamENG - thanks. I'd jump on the project if I could get past this, but I'm not sure.

dauwerda - the way I read the Act, yes, the engineer does have to be licensed as an SE. Doesn't matter if a local jurisdiction even exists. Making any decisions about any structure constitutes the practice of structural engineering in Illinois, as defined in 225 ILCS 340/5. Unfortunately. I know contractors in Illinois who do just what you're talking about, and nobody bats an eye, but it does seem like they are breaking the state law.

 

[r13]

Sorry for my poor English. I've difficulty to fully understand the clauses below. Can any body help, see whether the Architect is permit to design farm buildings outside of the corporate limits of any municipality?

Architects cannot practice land surveying or professional engineering in Illinois unless
licensed as a land surveyor or professional engineer. Architects can practice structural
engineering, when properly qualified to do so, but may not use the title “structural
engineer.”

The Architecture Practice Act does not apply to:
A. Buildings or structures outside the corporate limits of any municipality used for farm purposes.
B. Detached single family homes on a single lot.
C. Wood-framed, two-family homes on a single lot not more than two stories and basement in height.
D. Interior design services that do not involve life safety or structural changes.

Exemptions from Architecture Act are not exemptions from the Professional Engineering
and Structural Engineering Acts.

Where when an ordinance of a unit of local government requires the involvement of a
licensed architect for any buildings included in the preceding paragraphs (A) through
(D), the requirements of this Act shall apply.

 

[dauwerda]

From your link above, hemiv (underline is mine):

(225 ILCS 340/5) (from Ch. 111, par. 6605)
(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2030)
Sec. 5. Practice of structural engineering. A person shall be regarded as practicing structural engineering within the meaning of this Act who is engaged in the design, analysis, or supervision of the construction, enlargement or alteration of structures, or any part thereof, for others, to be constructed by persons other than himself or herself. Structures within the meaning of this Act are all structures having as essential features foundations, columns, girders, trusses, arches or beams, with or without other parts, and in which safe design and construction require that loads and stresses must be computed and the size and strength of parts determined by mathematical calculations based upon scientific principles and engineering data.

I would take this as the clause that allows a contractor to provide their own design without "practicing structural engineering" as they are also constructing the item. The end of the paragraph could also be interpreted to allow for the use of prescriptive codes (safe designs can be accomplished without mathematical calculations), so that any structure designed using said prescriptive codes does not fall under the structural practice act.

 

[dauwerda]

Yes architects are permitted to to design farm buildings outside of the corporate limits. The intent of that exemption is to say that those farm buildings are allowed to be designed without an architect. i.e an architect is not required.

 

[cvg]

licenses are issued by the state and require the licensee to stamp all plans, reports and documents. the only exception is for employees or consultants working in industry.

The Corps may not require stamping, but most other federal agencies do. for instance NRCS, BLM and IBWC all require stamping. regardless, you are better off just stamping it anyhow

now for the garden shed issue, your gardener can design that unless your AHJ requires otherwise. but... if an engineer designs it, still has to be stamped

 

[r13]

Thanks for the clarification. Always a struggle reading legal document.