Structural Engineering: Need Career Advice 1

[Cals33]

I am a current student finishing up my master's degree in structural engineering. I have a few career questions about the industry that I hope some the engineers out there could advise me on. My questions are generally regarding structural engineering career in the buildings sector.


I went straight into my masters after my bachelor degree with two summer internship experience (approx 8 mo.)with local structural firms. During my graduate studies, I have become more and more passionate about structural engineering and from my summer jobs, I really enjoy working in this area as a career.

However, I have had people tell me, some even my classmates in grad school, that a design or technical career in struct engineering is a dead end and that the way to go is to move towards a project manager role. Most of them claim that the salary is the main issue. For me, I am really passionate about the structural engineering side, yet I understand that its also important to understand that its also a business. To me, I am seeking more of a career rather than just a job that pays, but I would like to hear from some of you, is it really as what people are telling me that project managers fair better in the end?

Second question, hopefully some experienced engineers that do recruiting can update me on this. With only approx. 8 months of pregraduate work experience, a masters (by the way, I am in Canada), and I have pretty good grades all through undergrad to grad, is that enough "work experience" to get hired by the more better firms? It seems that alot of students have a lot more experience than I do through their co-op.

Third question: I understand that each country has their governing body for engineering practice, but really how mobile are structural engineers, say PE, SE or P.Eng in Canada, in like say moving to Asia, China or Europe to work. Are they generally accepted as qualified in terms of their knowledge or does local qualification matter alot, globally?

Last question: Is it better in to start a career in smaller for big firm? I hear that small firms are typically better for skill development. By small, I just mean small in employee number, but not the complexity of the project. I am thinking of (hopefully) starting with a firm that will give me plenty of chance to develope my skills regardless of size. However, I have had people tell me that if you start of small, its hard to move into a big company later in the career even if you did pick up a lot more skills much quicker. Any truth to that?

All these things I hear, are mostly from classmates whom I am not sure how much industry experience they have, so I am hoping some of the pracicing structural engineers can offer me some advice and clarifications.

Any comment would be very much appreciated. Thanks

 

[HgTX]

I know plenty of structural designers who would be surprised to hear they're in a dead end. Define "fare better".

Most of my master's program classmates who went to big fancy design firms had zero work experience. Your mileage may vary depending on the reputation of your graduate program.

Hg


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[denoid]

Cals33:

I've been in the SE business for over 30 years, so I think I'm qualified to answer some of your questions.

1. I wouldn't worry about project management for at least a few years until you get some real Engineering experience. You can cross that bridge when you come to it. I've done both, and, like you, I found I prefer the engineering over the management. Maybe the money is a little better in management, but so are some of the pains (personal opinion). I know some bad engineers who are good managers, and some good engineers who are bad managers. After a few years of engineering work, find your likes and strengths, and then make your decision.

2. If you have good grades in school and a little work experience, any good firm is likely to give you a chance. The real learning starts when you get the job, so don't think that the company will expect a fresh graduate to be perfect. Pick the best job you can find, and get a good mentor if you can. You'll go far.

3. This is the one question I'm not qualified to answer.

4. (Again, personal opinion). I've worked for small firms, (8 people), and I've worked for large firms, (6000+ people). Starting out, I think I'd opt for a larger firm. I think you can learn a lot, and they often get the larger, and sometimes more prestigious jobs, which it sounds like is what you are trying to do. The caveat here is to try not to get into a "sweat shop", where they work you to death, give you the crappiest jobs, and don't pay worth a damn. (Sometimes it's hard to know until you get there, though). After a few large and small firm bad choices, I've settled back into a small firm, hopefully to end my career with eventually. With all of the varied experience, though, it was easy to make my own personal choice. No one else can (should) make that choice for you in the long term.

Hope that helps a little. Good luck!

 

[Engineeeeeeeeer]

Cals33.
I'm from the other side of the fence, being a Mechanical Engineer but I feel my experience is still relevant and may be helpful for you.

I did a B.Eng, and struggled to get a job after graduating. Eventually after approx 1yr found a job in a small (read 12people) Engineering Co. After 7year I've moved to a bigger, worldwide Co. So to answer your questions:
A1. Both have advantages, and money is not really dependant on the position, rather the location and Co. If you take the route of SE, them you can also establish a private practice to increase your worth. PE may have better salaries, but the hours can be longer and there is definitely more stress.
A2. I had no work experience prior to graduating and it mattered. Your 8months is obviously better than nothing and probably more than a lot of your classmates. Important thing for interviews is to be able to draw from your experience and how you have learned and developed from it.
A3. I worked in Asia from age 23 (Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Thailand) and there are a lot of 'expats' over there. There are (speaking from the UK) branches of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers (IMechE) in HK and I would say that local (Asian) qualifications are not needed. The 'white man' thinks they know everything (a great percentage anyway) and the locals don't know their arse from their elbow. They are on huge salaries and are respected for whatever reason.
A4. I started in a smaller firm, so personally I cannot tell you what starting in a big firm would be like. Shortly after starting, I had a lot of responsibility to get things done to very short deadlines (very different from Uni). I was given a lot of different things to do, from Mechanical process design to structural drawings, to manufacturing drawings. Then had to do procurement, shipping, project planning and then overseas (Asia) site installations. If was very intense, very exciting and sometimes felt like dropping it as the pressure was too much. However I stuck it out. A number of years later I have moved on, and am now a project engineer where I find my experience is of great benefit and I think (hope) I am doing a really good job and enjoying it – ie does not really feel like work. A friend from uni works at Rolls Royce aero engines and is in more or less the same dept 7years later.

Another point is that you may not be in a position to choose big or small – you may find yourself, if you a struggling for interviews to accept the first or second offer

 

[Cals33]

This is the first time I posted on this forum regarding career advice and thanks for the helpful replies.

Regarding my first question, it's probably way too premature for me to ask or think about the managerial side of things as a fresh grad. I hope I am not sounding like I disrepect the structural designing field. In fact, that's the area that I want to go into.

Anyways, more replies from others would be appreciated.

 

[14159]

I worked for some of the larger firms for about 9 years before recently going back to school.

1. Whether or not you make good money depends a lot more on whether you become an owner than your particular position as a non-owner. As somebody else typed, you shouldn't worry too much about this at the moment. In general, I think if you're thinking money (why not? do we work for free?), then non-owner positions are basically a dead end, in my opinion. The real money goes to the ones that the owners think are the company's next owners, in my experience anyway. I found out through leaks that the owners of my last firm were making about 3x what I was, and I worked harder and did more than about half of them. Real money is in ownership, period.

2. If you have good grades, present yourself well, and have some good references, then you should be able to get a job at just about any firm that's looking to hire.

3. No clue

4. I've worked in large A/E firms and two large structural firms, both of which did very large and high-profile projects. The A/E experience was 90% a waste of time and the firm was very large and reputable. The level of technical expertise was unbelievably higher at the structural firms. The projects were better and the pay was better also.

Given your passion, I think the answer is definitely to go after a job at a high-end structural consultant. WPM, SOM, etc. I know for a fact that WPM has been hiring like gangbusters over recent months because several of my peers went there. They are very impressive.

My opinion (and I'm really confident about this) is that you should be aiming at having as impressive a resume as possible at the 5-year mark. This means that your resume should have a bunch of $50M-100M jobs on there that you can honestly say you designed. By that time, you should probably be managing some of the $40-50M ones. With the newly acquired PE and SE license, you might want to move for a big raise. The big firms can't be beat for fattening up the resume. If you get to 5 years in and haven't designed anything impressive, then you're gonna be sorry.

14159