Successful structural engineers - please give me some hope 13

[barkietrin7]

Dear structural engineers,

I'm a graduate structural engineer that is working really hard at becoming competent and capable in this field. It's a hard and slow grind, but I'm seeing results. I'm nearing the end of my first year in the industry as a design consultant in Melbourne.

I'm enjoying my work, but looking at some of the posts on the internet about the field is making me doubtful of the industry.

I'm looking for some hope. Scrolling this subreddit can be incredibly bleak, with every 4th post people asking for ways out of the industry.

I, and I'm sure many others here too, would love to hear from some successful structural engineers in this group.

Please tell us your story. How many years experience in the field do you have? What are you doing now? What are you working towards? Where are you from? What are you making annually/ what has your pay progression looked like (I can't believe that nobody is making money in this field). Was it worth it looking back?

If you've enjoyed your career so far and consider yourself successful, I really need to hear from you.

Many, many thanks in advance.

 

[TheoreticalHope]

In my experience (Canada), structural consulting is a hypercompetitive and cutthroat market.
To survive I am faced with the choice 1.) work long thankless hours to produce minimum quality, 2.) put your stamp on something that makes you uncomfortable, or 3.) burnout by the expectations of relentless, antagonistic perfectionism.
Survival strategies: Bid low, cross your fingers, proofread during your family vacations, and pretend you're having a good time.

I am damn good at what I do. I love structural engineering. I have amazing colleagues and friends who are all doing their best and creating great work.
It's not healthy, and I haven't yet figured out how to win. I'll let you know when I find out. It's hard watching my friends collapse into hopelessness around me.

I have been in senior positions and ran my own departments and a small firm. I have been involved in the biggest projects within thousands of kilometers. I have never made over six figures $CAD.

Good luck.
I also am eager to see some positive feedback from those who have found their way in this market.

 

[human909]

I was going to respond until I did a quick search and saw that this is a repost, word for word from a year ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Structural...ccessful_structural_engineers_please_give_me/

 

[rb1957]

i did wonder about the "reddit" reference ?

and about someone who identifies as "electrical" posting for structural engineer career advice.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[Guest090822]

My advice - go into real estate. You will get less than 2% of the value of the building you design, but some bimbo will get 6% to sell it.....

 

[SnTMan]

Well, I think comparing realtors to bimbos is unfair. To bimbos

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[Enhineyero]

If you've enjoyed your career so far and consider yourself successful, I really need to hear from you.

Don't think successful is the right word to describe it, probably survivor is a better word. Quote on TheorticalHope's post.

It's not healthy, and I haven't yet figured out how to win. I'll let you know when I find out. It's hard watching my friends collapse into hopelessness around me.

Not sure if other profession have it better than us. May be Trades? Lawyers? Wallstreet?

 

[Eigenvalue4]

I agree with the choices you are faced in structural consulting in Canada that TheoreticalHope described. Especially performing additional calculations in your own time. I feel like many senior engineers I have met regret in some ways of going into this field.

The responsibility and the amount of work simply does not match the salary you have at the end.

Structural consulting is very cyclical, it's either you work 40 to 60 hours per week, or you are unemployed due to economic recession or the government that wishes to reduce infrastructure investments.

The career progression is interesting at first, but plateaus very quickly. Early in your career, you will find yourself wondering: what's next? Middle management for something like 5 000 $ more per year? Bigger structures with far more responsibilities for something like 5 000 $ more per year? You will not increase a lot in pay unless you become a director or start your own engineering firm.

The toll on the mental is not to be neglected: risk of burnout, depression and anxiety issues. I have seen those problem creep to several of my colleagues who were healthy before.

You will sometimes be thinking during the night: did I calculate that failure mode of that structure?

There are also the physical risks that can injure or kill you, since often engineers will do some inspections or field surveyance:
- Falling off a structure.
- Being hit by a falling object.
- Breathing gas or particles that are toxic but not checked by your gas detectors.
- Being in contact with toxic components such as heavy metals (some are carcinogens, some induce reproductive issues, etc.).
- Being more on the road means a higher chance of being involved in a car accident.
- Etc.

On the other side many people appreciate being outside or on the field. Plus, you get to travel, eat in restaurants and stay hotels which can be fun at times but a toll in the long term.

Structural engineering looks a bit like a construction trade. Only it:
- Requires far more years of studying (aka investment).
- Has more responsibilities.
- Has less risk for your physical health since you will typically go less on construction sites or be involved in dangerous operations.
- Has similar pay
- Has worse compensation (such as insurance, pension plan, etc.).

Here are the perks however:
- Lots of work opportunities.
- You get to do some creative work.
- You get to work on a computer a major part of the time.
- Knowning how to program can be a big advantage in this field.
- You don't have to learn new things as much as in IT for instance where the field constantly changes quite a lot.
- In many locations, you need to be part of a local Order to work as an engineer, so it is hard to get your job stolen by foreign workers with lower wages like in IT.
- Learning new skills in this field is addictive.
- When you walk around cities, you may find interest in checking the details of the structures surrounding you.
- The profession is well recognized in society. It's easy for anyone to understand what you are doing.

 

[rb1957]

"Structural consulting is very cyclical" ... and structural consultants tend to be very cynical

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[jayrod12]

I must say that I'm generally happy with my work life balance and pay working in the prairies. I get paid well enough to have what I need/want(near 6 figures).

Do I have to work hard? Yep. But there's no career that you can make money without working hard. You don't get to make 6 figures in almost any position without being a hard worker. No matter what anyone tells you.

The difference for me is I really enjoy structural engineering. My brain just understands it. Could I have gone into trades and been successful? Sure. But I also look at many of the guys in trades and to be honest they look like they have many more miles on their body than I do at the same age. And most of the people my age working in trades don't make as much as I do and often have to work as hard or harder. The ones that are making near or more than what I do either work two jobs, own their own company, or made it into the project management stream and are no longer on the tools.

If structural engineering doesn't interest you, then why go into it in the first place? It was never touted as a lucrative career as far as I remember during the career fairs in high school. In fact I don't remember any engineering discipline being touted as extremely well paying. If you want lawyer money, you need to be a lawyer. Same for doctor's. Those both require as much or more schooling, as well as more job experience before you make that level of money.

Edit/Clarification: I went the college/tech diploma route and got into the industry first. Then went back and finished my degree later. I've been in the industry in some capacity since 2007, I graduated with my degree in 2013. In terms of actual time in office doing work I've got about 12 years of experience plus roughly 2 full years worth of school since my first structural job. My first structural job was my last college summer Co-op job at a small local structural firm. I went back to that firm after my last 6 month year of college and worked for 2 years. Started back at University in 2010 and worked as much as I could in weeks off (reading week and christmas) as well as all summer.

 

[WARose]

If I had to go into it again (at the same point in time) would I? Yes. Would I advise a young person to go into it? No. (In fact, I have turned down speaking at schools and whatnot for that reason. I'm not going to lie.)

So in short: I like it, it has been good to me (for over 20 years)......but I'm not sure it has the same future it had when I came in.

As far as being a young engineer goes.....yes it cane be a tough slog. It takes about 5 years to really get your bearings. The best companies to learn a lot are (IMHO) the small consulting firms. A lot of diverse projects. But the pace at those outfits can be tough. The big companies that do industrial/power design are my fav places to work.....but not as diverse in terms of projects as the smaller places. You see more mentoring at the big outfits as well.

 

[ATSE]

Reading previous posts, good advice from some of the usual suspects.
Older man to younger man: You might be lacking perspective.
Since graduating 25+ years ago, I have experienced career periods of mild euphoria and hope, followed by depression and disillusion. That's life. [Some might say the same about marriage]
I can say now that I am very satisfied with my work, and am over-paid. I have never had to stick my finger where it didn't belong [doctor], and don't have to tell half truths for a living [attorney]. But I wouldn't have the job I do today if I didn't take some crappy work situations.

As already alluded to above, your first 5 years should be challenging and difficult, and you should be willing to be underpaid as an exchange for building deep experience; I determined years ago that was a good trade.

This isn't unique to engineering - this is true for most career paths.

A couple of practical points:
- Not all industries are equal. If you are in the "vertical" building market as a sub to architects, you might as well be a street boxer. I did that gig for my early years. Some pull it off elegantly, but this is not for me.
- Not all companies are equal. Some companies are ideal, which good training, good pay, challenging projects, and a view of the river. Less than 20%. [aside: Do you have the skills, attitude, work ethic to be attractive to those companies? The cynicism goes both ways.]
- Most engineers are difficult people. Choose to put up with the jerk bosses and co-workers when you are learning and gaining experience. Be humble. Don't be fragile - suck it up.
- Play the long game. Think 5 years to 15 years ahead. Work toward that, starting now.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Please tell us your story. How many years experience in the field do you have? What are you doing now? What are you working towards? Where are you from? What are you making annually/ what has your pay progression looked like (I can't believe that nobody is making money in this field). Was it worth it looking back?

I spent the first six years of my career at a company that does heavy industrial engineering. Power plants, petrochemical plants, refineries, some nuclear work. I found this to be very educational and I learned a lot. Enjoyed most of my time there.

Then I took a job with a company that does structural engineering software. I spent 16 years there and absolutely loved most of it. I thought I would be at that company for the rest of my career. Company got sold and I was pushed out.

Spent a year back in "real" structural engineering. Working on health care facilities and hospitals. This was really, really challenging for me. I did a ton of things that I hadn't done before I'd never worked on a real building before, only equipment support structures. I'd rarely worked with architects before. The schedules were very demanding and the hours were brutal. I felt like I had learned a lot and was really grateful for my time there and the opportunity to advance my knowledge.

However, between the lower pay (compared to my previous position) and the long hours, I decided to move back into the structural software field. And, I'm happier there. I get to explore more complex aspects of structural engineering (which I love) without taking on the liability of complex projects.

I have also taken on "side work" over the years. Minor stuff like the modification or addition of a deck, retaining wall, patio cover, minor addition or re-model of a single family residence or a such.

I also have a number of friends and colleagues that eschewed traditional structural engineering to work for Hilti, Simpson Strong-Tie, the APA, companies that do plan check, or such. So, there are lots of routes your career can go if you don't love your current role.

My thought is that I always want to "make the most" out of my current position. Meaning that I want to learn and advance my career. That might be by expanding my technical knowledge, my project management skills, my ability to manage people working under me, my understanding of different types of structures or projects that I hadn't worked on before.

 

[IceNine]

My advice - go into real estate. You will get less than 2% of the value of the building you design, but some bimbo will get 6% to sell it.....

And another 6% to sell it again two years later...

 

[MIStructE_IRE]

I enjoy it I have to say. I have good work life balance, earn a very good living and for the most part enjoy what I do.

I’ve seen lots of young engineers come and go over the years, and in my view you either get structure or you don’t. If you don’t, decades of study and countless books will naturally help, but won’t make you the same engineer as someone who just gets it and hasn’t had to study that hard.

Ultimately, find a job you love and you’ll never work a day in your life. Would i go into it all over again? Absolutely!

 

[STrctPono]

I got lucky and ended up working for a company that has a real cushy little niche with very little competition (we work very hard to keep it that way). Even so, I find the following assessment to be very true for me:

To survive I am faced with the choice ... or 3.) burnout by the expectations of relentless, antagonistic perfectionism

This one rings very true for me and is mentally taxing day in and day out. It is very tiresome getting yelled at for every little mistake or constantly being stressed about the ideas of mistakes/discrepancies in your sealed contract documents being used against you like a proverbial bullet in a gun as you stand in front of your own grave....

As previously stated, it took 5 years of hard hard work after grad school before I felt like I wasn't a complete and utter waste of space in my company. 9 years before I actually could see the forest for the trees. And 10 years before I began teetering on the edge of burning out. If I had ended up with a different company with the same high expectations and lower pay, I would probably have hit the road a while back. If one of my children wanted to be an Engineer, I would actually probably dissuade them.

I do have a lot of love for what I do but it is also the sword which may drive me to a life of being a jobless carefree vagabond.

 

[Enable]

I do quite a bit of temporary work design and rather enjoy it. Hearing the stories above I suspect your enjoyment in this profession has as much to do with the type of clients you deal with as not. When you are a construction engineer you are dealing with a client that is reasonably sophisticated about what they want, and care more about being able to work with you and get things done than anything else. Being able to say I told you so doesn’t factor into it at all. Getting the job done and getting it done today is primary. Stressful sure, but it's not bullshit stress and for me that's the real killer (read: stress for stress sake generally induced by people you think we may be able to do without anyways)

In the counterfactual, I don’t believe I would have enjoyed being in a design office where your clients are architects or developers. See bullshit stress above. So maybe it’s all about finding your niche! Lots more then just the traditional route out there.

As background on myself:

My father is in structural consulting and much like STrctPono he advised my brother and I to steer clear from engineering. As a result, I took my engineering degree and plied my hand as a contractor (on the tools first, management second) and enjoyed it very much (actually was going the law school route and I teach the LSAT now but that’s a completely different story).

Unfortunately, being a contractor that cares is no easy task and after starting my own restoration company I burnt out dealing with the pile of people involved (actually not to long ago). I now focus my efforts more on the engineering side of things and I have much more fun. Though I can still jump in the excavator any time I want, which is a nice bonus of the legacy construction component!


CWB (W47.1) Div 1 Fabricator
Temporary Works Design

https://www.enable-inc.com/

 

[Liam Nesson]

Dam Theoreticalhope, we must be in different parts of Canada. 6 figures should be achievable for senior engineers in vancouver, calgary and toronto, obviously it gets harder the smaller the town. The work is challenging and new, in the last few months i have dealt with floodwalls and cofferdams for the first time. The more important you are to the company the less the cyclic nature of the work affects you, i.e. they get rid of the poorer performers first. Long hrs can suck and can create strains on relationships, but if you find the right partner and enojoy the work you will be fine.

 

[Enhineyero]

Now it makes sense why I got a punching bag for christmas santa. Being on the vertical building market just means you are SOL.

 

[human909]

Some interesting stories here. Both on the positive an negative side of things. I didn't wish to pay this thread any attention because the first post is some sort of strange troll but since it has trigger enlightening discuss who cares....

One thing that has stood out to me is this comment which I whole heartedly disagree with. Not that it is necessarily wrong, simply it shouldn't be this way and doesn't have to be for many people.

As already alluded to above, your first 5 years should be challenging and difficult, and you should be willing to be underpaid as an exchange for building deep experience; I determined years ago that was a good trade.

If things are overly difficult and you are being underpaid then either you aren't suited to the profession or your company isn't suited to your development. Life is too short to waste putting in the hard yard for a perceived reward in 5-10 years time that doesn't eventuate for everyone. That said, I can't be too idealistic. There is almost inevitable truth in there somewhere. Most of us go through career ups downs.