Synthetic Engine Oil 1

[controlnovice]

I did a search for this one also with no luck. Sorry if this has been asked before. I put this in another thread rather than combine it with my question on High Mileage Oils.

So, I have a car with 120k miles on it and have always run the standard 10W-30 from one of the local quick change marts: non synthetic I assume.

I've heard stories of going to synthetic after so long on the natural stuff and have heard of gumming and leaks.

Any one out there with the real story?

Plus, my wife will be getting a new car soon. The dealer is giving 3 free oil changes. Is it worth starting from the beginning with synthetic and lengthening the time between oil changes?

Oh. I'm looking for a layman's answer. I have no idea what you guys are talking about when you get into acids and the better weights.

This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[swall]

"Swarups". They advertised those in the BMW motorcyclist magazines in the late '70's.

 

[evelrod]

sprintcar----"Tornado"...still selling to stupid consumers...old P.T. was right on...I hate stupid people...ignorance can be corrected with education, 'stupid' is life long and incurable!
Aside---What happend to that gal that was on your circuit? All I read lately is on Katherene Legg and Donna Patrick from road racing.

To All...I have not been adding my standard tag line but, lest anyone forget...

Believe only half of what you see and none of what you read.

Rod

 

[sprintcar]

Rod
I found the flyer

http://www.cyclocharger.com

I can just see this on my small block chevy Hilborn injection......

Ol' P.T.'s saying needs to be updated .. more like 10 born every minute today!

Erin Crocker ran with us for a few races. Nice girl, decent driver. Becca Anderson was here a year or 2 ago, just read that she got a World of Outlaw ride for 2006. Thankfully the other female (nicknamed "The Weapon") retired before she killed herself or one of us.

I'm a crash test dummy for the HANS device now - they send you a neat t-shirt (current value $25000 in wrecked parts) if you make the Customer Testimonial page on their website.

http://www.hansdevice.com

Mine's NOT the one going out over the fence - he got on TV while Speed Channel left 5 laps before I set the altitude record!

"If A equals success, then the formula is: A = X + Y + Z, X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut."
-- by Albert Einstein

 

[evelrod]

Erin Crocker---I was quite impressed with what I saw on the telly. Don't know about altitude records, my 2003 launch was only 30 feet up and 5.5 turns for a nose first finish...probably a record for a 65 year old driver in a Mini Cooper...$22,000 including a classic 30 second video!!!

Merry Christmas and sorry for sorta hijacking the thread.

Rod

 

[Tmoose]

I think for my current vehicles any oil will work fine in the main and rod bearings and on the pistons.
My old engines have become troublesome due to valve guide wear, timing chain and gear wear, and gunk and varnish build up.

The latest SAE spec includes a minimum viscosity at a temp higher than the standard ~ 100 C, which make me think that's important. I'd like to think Synthetics' better VI means higher viscosity in hot spots like valve guides, and lower volatility means more (some) oil remaining there too. I hope it makes my timing chain last forever too.

 

[EdDanzer]

Here are some oil suggestions from my experience. Don’t use too good of oil for the first several hundred hours of operation, or the rings may not seat well. Experience 1, 1981 Ford PU with 6 cyl. @100,000 miles with Delo 400, you could still see the hone marks, truck sold with 150,000 miles. 1987 Ford PU with 6.7 diesel, had to be re ringed from running Delo 400, ran Castrol 15-30 until sold with 150,000 mile. 1992 Ford PU 460 V8, used Castrol 15-30, change oil and filter every 5,000 miles, didn’t use a quart between oil changes, sold with 150,000 miles, seen at 250,000 mile still not using oil. We use a Yanmar L100 diesel engine in our pull through delimber, Union oil and Delo 400 cause the rings to not seat, and we have had to re ring some engines to provide enough compression to allow the engines to start.

 

[drwebb]

Ihave heard the "synthetic keeps rings from seating" argument many times, but never an explanation of how if true, changing to mineral oil for a time doesn't then allow them to seat. Sounds a little cryptic to me. Perhaps there was something mechanical wrong with the rebuild that the mechanic blames on the oil?

 

[ivymike]

I agree - I've got a bit of experience with piston & ring design, and I've yet to see a case where "ring seating" ("seating" being mostly the reduction of Rpk on the liner) failed to occur because of an oil selection.

I have seen all sorts of problems described by mechanics as "rings not seated," ranging from unexplained white vapors from the CCV (occasionally due to a turbo problem) to drivers' reports of high oil consumption to "dusted" rings. It is often the case that replacing the PRL sets is the third thing a mechanic tries when fixing an unexplained problem, that it's done in conjunction with other repairs, and that the description he writes down is "rings not seated." The efficacy of such repairs is (as you might expect) a crapshoot.

 

[evelrod]

As far as I know, several of the up market Euro mfgrs. use synthetic exclusively, break in or no.

I still start up on non synthetic, in reality, to flush out all the 'junk' as much as anything. I did start one engine a while back on Mobil 1 (inadvertantly) and it ran in the same as any other, leaving me to ponder the inherited "wisdom" of the "never use synthetic to start as it will not allow the rings to properly seat" logic.

I have reached a crossroad in my lubricant usage...I have switched to using race specific motor oil--- Red Line synthetic in the race engines...hang the expense. Perhaps you really can teach an old dog...

Rod

 

[sprintcar]

Like Rod, I always use mineral oil for the initial start of a new race motor, typically Valvoline Racing 15w40 or 20w50 if I can find it.

While the jury is still out on the ring seating issue, I like to clean out all the junk (stray silicone, lint, bugs, the neighbor's cat) that somehow finds its way into the engine during assembly. After a filter change, I typically run one or 2 races on the oil then switch to the Royal Purple synthetic.

"If A equals success, then the formula is: A = X + Y + Z, X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut."
-- by Albert Einstein

 

[patprimmer]

Ditto

I have started new engines on synthetic with no problems.

Also I normally start on mineral oil, and run in the cam and bed the rings, then change oil and filter. Reason for mineral oil is economic only as 30 min fast idle and 1 or 2 minutes of short burst power runs is a very short service interval for the oil, hence it is a waste of good synthetic oil.



Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[EdDanzer]

My Ford and Yanmar experiences are with factory new engines. In all of the Yanmar engines the top 2 rings are for compression and the third is the oil control. There is excess oil building up on the compression rings which burns, leaving a gummy material that ultimately causes the ring to stick and not hold compression. The one running Union only had about 500 hours, and I had to break the rings to get them out of the grooves. These engines run at 3,000 rpm 6 to 10 hours per day at varying load.

 

[ivymike]

I would consider "ring sticking" to be an entirely different phenomena than the lack of "ring seating." The lube oil you use can have a very significant effect on the rate of lacquer and/or carbon deposit formation (and thereby ring sticking). Certain popular brands even have huge variability batch-to-batch for the same oil type. I would suggest that if you find an oil brand/type that works well in your "sticky" engine, you stick with it, synthetic or not.

 

[drwebb]

Another favorite complaint is that synthetics are so "slippery" that they can cause roller- or ball bearings to slide instead of roll leading to ruined engines. Besides sounding incredible, what is never explained is how a lubricant that reduced the traction in such bearings to such an extent that they were essentially behaving as journal bearings could possibly lead to failure? It's so good that it's bad?!? Does it pass the bogeyman test?

 

[EdDanzer]

Roller or ball skidding is more common with grease, but can happen with oil if there is too much clearance between the components.