What is the extent of technical knowledge that project managers need to possess. Can someone with 2-3 years of experience get a Project Management Certification and become a Project Manager. I know of people in the IT industry who with 2 yrs of experience, do in for a PM certification and get high paying jobs in the area of Project Management. My background is Civil Engineering, and I feel stuck. I feel as if I will have to spend years gaining technically advanced before I can get anywhere. Is this true?
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Technical Knowledge 10
- Thread starter Moonstone
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It varies widely for different engineering discipline. But for civil or structural, I feel that project manager should be at a level where, as a minimum, he/she understands the design process and understand the work the designers are performing.
I've witnessed project managers that are so fresh you start to wonder what he/she is managing.
You don't have to be the most technical individual to manage but at least have attained some level of technical competency before becoming a project manager.
I've witnessed project managers that are so fresh you start to wonder what he/she is managing.
You don't have to be the most technical individual to manage but at least have attained some level of technical competency before becoming a project manager.
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MikeHalloran
Mechanical
Outside of civil/structural, I have no evidence that even a high school education is required.
I wish I were kidding.
Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
I wish I were kidding.
Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
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GregLocock
Automotive
I've worked with a couple of Tier 1 suppliers who use keen young graduates as project managers.
They don't seem to have very happy lives, as they don't know enough about their own organisations, or their custoemrs, or the technical side of the project.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
They don't seem to have very happy lives, as they don't know enough about their own organisations, or their custoemrs, or the technical side of the project.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
You should have enough technical knowledge to know the difference between wood and steel !!!
Jokes apart, there's a level of technical knowledge that's required to perform the job - it should be enough to ensure that he/she is not taken for a ride by people like me.
HVAC68
Jokes apart, there's a level of technical knowledge that's required to perform the job - it should be enough to ensure that he/she is not taken for a ride by people like me.
HVAC68
There are people "trained" to be project managers. Managing staff, time, project scheduling and so on. It works great in non-engineering profession perhaps. But take away the engineering qualifications, projects fall apart... many disgruntled employees... Unrealistic expectations, stop and go... unethical job number swapping... should I go on?
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SWComposites
Aerospace
Usually the less technical knowledge you have the more likely you are to get a project management position. Technical knowledge just gets in the way of setting unrealistic schedules, demanding "scheduled miracles", establishing unrealistic budgets, and making "politically correct/ technically wrong" decisions - things that are all to often expected by upper management of project managers. You are asking the wrong crowd for advice on how to quickly get into project management. Frankly, if you don't have much technical expertise, the engineers that work for you won't have any respect for you.
SWComposites:
Several of the posts here have been accurate, and I gave you a star because your post is probably one of the most accurate summaries of the situation as I see it. And I have performed contract engineering in quite a number of engineering houses.
Your point about technical knowledge "just gets in the way" really hit home too. Several acquaintenances of mine who moved from engineering to project management positions (and had plenty of technical knowledge) were still overwhelmed by the bean counters over them and the pressure to perform "paper miracles". But to prove your point about the advantage of having the technical knowledge, at least in that situation they had the credibility and know-how to point out why the demanded "paper miracles" would not happen and make it stick. The technically inexperienced can't do that when called upon by higher management to explain project failures.
GregLocock:
Gave you a star too because I had never really considered the perspective before of the "keen young graduate".
I do recall several of those over the years trying to perform the task of managing a project for which they had neither the engineering background or the people skills to truly succeed. As I recall, most of them felt unfairly hard pressed and a few were already considering alternate career paths. It is always good when someone can give me the bigger picture, and you did.
Several of the posts here have been accurate, and I gave you a star because your post is probably one of the most accurate summaries of the situation as I see it. And I have performed contract engineering in quite a number of engineering houses.
Your point about technical knowledge "just gets in the way" really hit home too. Several acquaintenances of mine who moved from engineering to project management positions (and had plenty of technical knowledge) were still overwhelmed by the bean counters over them and the pressure to perform "paper miracles". But to prove your point about the advantage of having the technical knowledge, at least in that situation they had the credibility and know-how to point out why the demanded "paper miracles" would not happen and make it stick. The technically inexperienced can't do that when called upon by higher management to explain project failures.
GregLocock:
Gave you a star too because I had never really considered the perspective before of the "keen young graduate".
I do recall several of those over the years trying to perform the task of managing a project for which they had neither the engineering background or the people skills to truly succeed. As I recall, most of them felt unfairly hard pressed and a few were already considering alternate career paths. It is always good when someone can give me the bigger picture, and you did.
Sorry, not true at our company. Our IPT leads are so flexible that when they wear their PM hats, they schedule unrealistically, then complain to themselves while wearing their ENG hat about the unrealistic schedules.
Aerospace has traditionally been the exact opposite, where sharp engineers get promoted into the management chain. Then they die in their new positions, because they wind up cranking on the engineering design instead of pay attention to the budget and schedule.
TTFN
Aerospace has traditionally been the exact opposite, where sharp engineers get promoted into the management chain. Then they die in their new positions, because they wind up cranking on the engineering design instead of pay attention to the budget and schedule.
TTFN
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Project management is Planning, Organizing, Directing, Staffing and Controlling. If you know or pay to much attention to details ( that otheres are supposed to know ) you loose your way.
YOur job is to see the forest and plot a way through it. Others will take care of the trees and the beetles on the bark. IF you as project manager start spending too much time with the beetles on the bark the whole organization may wander around in circles.
YOur job is to see the forest and plot a way through it. Others will take care of the trees and the beetles on the bark. IF you as project manager start spending too much time with the beetles on the bark the whole organization may wander around in circles.
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BJC
What you say is very true, the PM is the leader. If as leader you get bogged down in the detail the team will suffer from lack of leadership. As with all things there is a balance, teh PM must have an understanding of the works being managed, otherwise he cannot lead the team successfully either. The technical knowlwedge is required for several reasons,
So (s)he can know which direction to go
So they know what is realistic and what is not
To be able to justify the results or missing targets to management or justify the course of action as debodine stated extremely well above.
Experienced designers will also not have as much respect for a non technical or inexperienced PM. A general statement, and likely to offend.
The skill of a good PM is to have the technical knowledge, use that to motivate the team and provide the lead, not get into the detail. If things go off the rails then the knowledgable PM will first have the knowledge that it has gon off the rails and second be able to assist the team to get back on track.
Mark Hutton
What you say is very true, the PM is the leader. If as leader you get bogged down in the detail the team will suffer from lack of leadership. As with all things there is a balance, teh PM must have an understanding of the works being managed, otherwise he cannot lead the team successfully either. The technical knowlwedge is required for several reasons,
So (s)he can know which direction to go
So they know what is realistic and what is not
To be able to justify the results or missing targets to management or justify the course of action as debodine stated extremely well above.
Experienced designers will also not have as much respect for a non technical or inexperienced PM. A general statement, and likely to offend.
The skill of a good PM is to have the technical knowledge, use that to motivate the team and provide the lead, not get into the detail. If things go off the rails then the knowledgable PM will first have the knowledge that it has gon off the rails and second be able to assist the team to get back on track.
Mark Hutton
I probably fit the example that many of you describe above. Undoubtedly, my age is less than the duration of many of your engineering careers.
I was hired to run a mfg. plant, not something too many recent graduates are prepared to deal with. For a time, I felt nigh unethical for taking a job that I felt unprepared for. (engineering degree sans management courses)
I'd guess that the technical knowledge requirement probably depends on the type of project. It's not too smart to have Mr. Civil Greenie head-up work on a bridge project or watershed dam or something similar.
That said, the message I got from the leadership that hired me is that a young (inexperienced) person is less biased going into a management project; no bad habits to unlearn. Sometimes ignorance serves to simplify. Also a young (inexperienced) person cannot just "do it myself!" if a team member is lazy or inefficient. That manager will ride, err... motivate everyone, because he knows he couldn't get it done otherwise!
Also, having a a young (inexperienced) person at the head often creates a team dynamic immediately, as then the team members are almost certain to all share one thing in common at that point: utter disgust "that such a young, wet behind the ears, babyface is leading my project!" I'm really not joking there, I've seen it!
Probably the number one motivating factor to hire young or inexperienced is economics. It's cheaper to hire an unknown with potential (that may or may not fail) than to go after a veteran with 20+ years experience carrying a large overhead with him (that may or may not fail). Unwise logic? Maybe, but its reality in some low-margin industries!
If the team is put together properly, there will be several members who serve to oversee that all the calcs check out, all the "i"s are dotted, and that efficient and compliant design is achieved. That doesn't always fall soley on the guy at the top of the pile.
Very few of my posts to these fora are technical in nature- reason being, I have almost nothing to offer and much to learn. (and I do, from many of you people!) A heartfelt thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge.
![[medal]](/data/assets/smilies/medal.gif "[medal] [medal]")
I was hired to run a mfg. plant, not something too many recent graduates are prepared to deal with. For a time, I felt nigh unethical for taking a job that I felt unprepared for. (engineering degree sans management courses)
I'd guess that the technical knowledge requirement probably depends on the type of project. It's not too smart to have Mr. Civil Greenie head-up work on a bridge project or watershed dam or something similar.
That said, the message I got from the leadership that hired me is that a young (inexperienced) person is less biased going into a management project; no bad habits to unlearn. Sometimes ignorance serves to simplify. Also a young (inexperienced) person cannot just "do it myself!" if a team member is lazy or inefficient. That manager will ride, err... motivate everyone, because he knows he couldn't get it done otherwise!
Also, having a a young (inexperienced) person at the head often creates a team dynamic immediately, as then the team members are almost certain to all share one thing in common at that point: utter disgust "that such a young, wet behind the ears, babyface is leading my project!" I'm really not joking there, I've seen it!
Probably the number one motivating factor to hire young or inexperienced is economics. It's cheaper to hire an unknown with potential (that may or may not fail) than to go after a veteran with 20+ years experience carrying a large overhead with him (that may or may not fail). Unwise logic? Maybe, but its reality in some low-margin industries!
If the team is put together properly, there will be several members who serve to oversee that all the calcs check out, all the "i"s are dotted, and that efficient and compliant design is achieved. That doesn't always fall soley on the guy at the top of the pile.
Very few of my posts to these fora are technical in nature- reason being, I have almost nothing to offer and much to learn. (and I do, from many of you people!) A heartfelt thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge.
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While I suspect MikeHalloran's comment is generally true, I can even cite an example in civil/structural where only 20% of the PM staff have a degree in Civil Engineering. I think it's a disgrace to our profession when a design engineer has to explain basic engineering principles to a PM so that the PM can in turn go to the client and explain it to him.
So to answer the original question, I feel technical knowledge is very important for a PM. Moonstruck, I don't mean to thwart your career advancement but I think you should stick it out and learn more before "advancing" to project management. It's not fair to the guy's in the trenches when the PM doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
If you do go the PM route, do me a favor, please don't call the engineers "my engineers". Slavery was abolished years ago.;-)
So to answer the original question, I feel technical knowledge is very important for a PM. Moonstruck, I don't mean to thwart your career advancement but I think you should stick it out and learn more before "advancing" to project management. It's not fair to the guy's in the trenches when the PM doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
If you do go the PM route, do me a favor, please don't call the engineers "my engineers". Slavery was abolished years ago.;-)
Technical knowledge obviously helps a Project Manager - but, the key is NOT to surface the engineer in you too much, lest you get carried away by the engineering detailing and end up forgetting the bigger picture of Project Management. Many Project Managers fail because of this. There has to be enough technical knowledge to spot the obvious mistakes and to ensure that you are not taken for a ride - otherwise, the function of Project Manager is to carry out functions at a much higher level.
HVAC68
HVAC68
That example is just of a BAD manager, regardless of whether he's an engineer ot not.
A GOOD manager should know and understand his role and responsibilities and those of his subordinates. The PM pays the salaries of the engineers and the commodity is their technical expertise. This takes no engineering knowhow to understand. To try become the information "middleman" is arrogant and egotistical, on top of being rife with inefficiency and possibility of error in translation. In that situation, the engineer should be like the hired gun that he is. Send him to duke it out on the whiteboard.
TTFN
A GOOD manager should know and understand his role and responsibilities and those of his subordinates. The PM pays the salaries of the engineers and the commodity is their technical expertise. This takes no engineering knowhow to understand. To try become the information "middleman" is arrogant and egotistical, on top of being rife with inefficiency and possibility of error in translation. In that situation, the engineer should be like the hired gun that he is. Send him to duke it out on the whiteboard.
TTFN
Obviously, the Manager has to understand his roles and responsibilities - in fact not only his, he has to understand the roles and responsibilities of his sub-ordinates as well. I was only suggesting that one has to "grow" from an engineer to a Project Manager - I have seen many Project Managers are unable to do this, simply becuase, they spend too much time on what they know best in their previous position. In fact, this applies to many Managers, not restricted to Project Managers. I don't know where you got the term "middle-men" from my post !!!
HVAC68
HVAC68
In my experience in a small to midsize structural firms in the past, project managers not only "manage" schedule, staffing and resources but also act as a technical lead who establish structural systems, make major engineering decisions, train and guide design staff among other things.
My experience in bigger firms however, I witnessed the opposite. In fact, many project managers have a reputation of knowing too little, mismanaging and as MikeHalloran stated "no evidence that even a high school education is required".
Although it appears to be the norm, it doesn't have to be.
My experience in bigger firms however, I witnessed the opposite. In fact, many project managers have a reputation of knowing too little, mismanaging and as MikeHalloran stated "no evidence that even a high school education is required".
Although it appears to be the norm, it doesn't have to be.
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