The 21st Century Design Drafting Group 6

[joshua0977]

I'm curious. Since CAD's inseption during the 80's & 90's many companies simply electronified (if there is such a word) their design drafting processes. In the 21st Century will there be a paradigm shift from tradtional design drafting groups? What efficiences will traditional Design Drafting groups incorporate? Examples:
Will we head toward paperless (drawingless) engineering society?
Will PMI become a viable path?
What means will design groups explore to convey design requirements and increase the design effiency?

Share your thoughts.

 

[msquared48]

Somehow I cannot see it drawingless, knowing the contractors I have dealt with.

PMI?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[MikeHalloran]

Paradigm shift already happened.
Companies bought CAD stations.
Companies fired engineers to pay for the CAD stations.
Designers became engineers by declaration.
Drafters and detailers were fired for more cost savings.

Efficiency accrued?
Negative; designers make mistakes that engineers don't.

Paperless?
No. Nobody wants to send an actual CAD file to anyone, because it may be repurposed so easily that your customers can become your competitors. So pdf files are sent back and forth, and CAD files are (re)generated from them, at considerable expense. Expense includes the labor of regeneration, and the cost of errors and omissions during transcription.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[ewh]

I agree with Mike... since computers have arrived on the scene, we use much more paper than we used to in drawing creation. Even with a broad adaptation of MBD, there will still be a paper record, of tolerances and materials if nothing else. The only way around this that I see is if ALL of the CAD developers agree on one common standard, and I don't see that happening very soon.
If by PMI you mean PLM, then yes, I do see that becoming more common in the future, if only to keep track of all of the data we are producing.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[apsix]

BIM will become more prevalent.

Will PMI even become a viable abbreviation?

 

[msquared48]

D$#@ Abbreviations! Speak English people!

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[TheTick]

Hear that grinding? It's a paradigm shifting without a clutch.

Ugh! I typed "paradigm"! Now my keyboard is all gritty. The buzzword filter in my virus protection is blinking red.

 

[Junior37c]

The real question is will management stop using the buzzword of the minute and applying it on Engineers?

Lean, Siz Sigma, Paradigm Shift, 7 Habits, Green, etc.

 

[dvd]

Brainwash yourself for fun and profit...

 

[photoengineer]

I think the major shift is the drafting and engineering functions will eventually get combined into one and the same person. There's no reason the engineer can't do drafting as well and I'm not sure that it is any more cost effective to have a drafter draft and an engineer design because it takes so much time for the engineer to communicate to the drafter what he/she wants.

Cedar Bluff Engineering

http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

 

[Ussuri]

is the drafting and engineering functions will eventually get combined into one and the same person

Is this not the way it was back at the beginning? I think that the early victorian engineers used to do all their own draughting.

 

[ScottyUK]

Ah, but they were not licensed engineers and therefore weren't entitled to portray themselves as such.

That's also the real reason why the industrial revolution started in England: the UK allows anyone to call themselves an engineer...


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[moltenmetal]

photoengineer: when CAD is truly used as computer aided DESIGN, it makes sense for an engineer to do it themselves. That's when the communication between CAD operator and engineer can sometimes become so burdensome that it's no longer worthwhile.

When CAD is used to simply automate the process of DRAWING, a drafter is the way to go. An engineer adds no value to that process.

Some will argue that the process of drawing generation can be completely automated, but that presumes a lot of things that are frequently not true!

Properly instructed and supervised, a mechanical designer operating a CAD station can competently fulfill many of the design tasks that might otherwise require a technologist or even an engineer. When you expect a drafter to become a designer with neither experience nor formal training, you get into ENORMOUS trouble.

The division of labour exists for good reasons. The trouble starts when the bean-counters make decisions based on a profound ignorance of anything about people's roles and focus only on how much "payroll burden" they represent.

 

[joshua0977]

Thanks for all the replies. Even the hilarious ones.
PMI is the abbreviation for Product Manufacturing Information. I'm looking at embedding PMI into the Solid Models to get the factory on line earlier in the process. PMI would constitute the adding GD&T and Critical Dimensions that drive the design.
The primary intent is to get drawings out of the critical path as much as possible. I don't think we ever go paperless but we need to be more efficient in drawing creation. There is no Staples Easy Button to creating a drawing but we can condense the time it take to create and check it. As for management and the use of Buzzwords, I wouldn't throw out that list of acroynms too quickly.

So... what are you doing to shorten the design cycle?
What have you automated?
What would you like to automate?

Where do you see CAD going in the next 5 years?

Thanks Jay Peterson

 

[ewh]

If you have the luxury of having design, manufacture (including tooling, aids, etc) and inspection all done in-house, then there are good solutions out there today to do what you want. The problems start when you have to send any of your data outside.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[cksh]

It all depends on your company/field/industry etc.

For my last job we created 2d prints from the models, which the toolmakers sometimes used, but everything was stored electronically with electronic signatures. The only reason I needed to print them out was ease of checking or to send to the toolmaker. Some toolmakers were happy with just the 3d data. The print was used for layouts and that was it. Sometime I would have a seperate print with a few overall dimensions for layouts and the complete 2d print is just a formality.

My current job I do not create models or drawings but am responsible for checking. The toolmakers use the 3d data, and the drawings are strictly for layouts. We do keep signed electronic copies that have been scanned, but we do not have to keep the actual print.

As our toolmakers always try to get us to believe: We will make the tool perfect to your model. If it doesn't work it is because the plant doesn't process it correctly.

Up until my current job I have always done my own drafting/modeling

 

[ajack1]

I very much agree with the last post from ewh.

Even going “out of house” it is still possible. Here is a fairly interesting article about paperless design. This seems to be the way most of our more successful customers are going.

We have been aiming towards paperless (or at least limited prints) for a while now and whilst it takes time, effort and money it does set you apart from other companies and offers the chance of work that not everyone can compete on. The flip side is you end up not being competitive for companies that just want 2D drawings. However I firmly believe it is the way forward, at least in automotive. I am sure this does not apply to all industries.

 

[cranky108]

Maybe you guys see the possibility of a papperless office, but in this industry it isen't moving very fast.
You see we still use 2d drawings with no units of measurments. And it is quite common to have over a hundred drawings in a set, where the schematics reference the wiring diagrams.
The problem with CAD is we often need to reference several drawing at the same time. So several screens, and a very fast cad processor would be needed. As for the field engineers, then need this in a portable size.
I just don't see it yet. Paper is still just to easy.

 

[TheTick]

Drop your drawings off a ladder, they flutter and roll across the floor until they are picked up. Try that with your laptop.

 

[MadMango]

I think 2D will always be with us. Model based definition is great, along with a minimal 2D drawing... in a perfect world. The problems will start when the CAD file corrupts and you can't reverse engineer your parts because there's not enough information on the 2D drawing that you saved as a PDF. Not that that's ever happened to me.

I doubt drawings can ever been taken out of the critical path, but MBD and PMI do allow for more parallel paths of work. The 3D models are done, they can be sent to (rapid) manufacture for quicker prototyping while the final drawings are made since there's no "waiting".

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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