The Electrical Harmonizer 4

[djohnst]

A supplier is offering to sell us an Electrical Harmonizer which he claims "Optimizes incoming voltage to appropriate utilization level" for energy cost savings.
This device is actually a step-down transformer that reduces the voltage by about 6% from say 485 volts to 455 volts, the idea being to reduce the voltage to a level that is still within the operating range of the equipment within our building, but since P=E*I reducing E should result in lower P consumed and thereby lower energy costs.
The supplier has impressive documentation that confirm the savings.
My questions: Has anyone had good or bad experiences with this type of product? Does anyone know the long term effect of operating equipment such as fluorescent lights, or chiller, fan and pump motors with variable speed drives at slightly reduced voltages?

 

[itsmoked]

I have no experience with an "Electrical Harmonizer". But just the name gives me the creeps.

First question would be:

If everything the "salesman" sez is true, what would be the ROH (return on the hassle).

What floor space consumption?
Any cooling costs?
What things are going to NOT like this, that will have to be tranformerized?

What could be damaged on accident while discovering a non-compatibility.

What is the annual ROI?

What happens when it is discovered that you can only cut back 3%?

It could work..

I better solution is often the upgrade of equipment or a review of all plant power consumption. Maybe the 6% could be found thru improvement?

 

[rcw retired EE]

Reducing voltage only saves power on constant impedance loads like electric heat and incandescent lamps. But even then, loads like electric water heaters consume the same kWH because they run longer each time they operate.

Motor loads are constant horsepower devices. (Actually torque matching devices - the motor draws enough current at its terminal voltage to produce the torque required by the load.) Reducing motor voltage increases the motor amps so the kW draw is the same. Any improvement in iron losses due to less voltage is offset by an increase in copper losses (I squared R) from the higher current.

Most computers’ and other electronic equipment’s power supplies draw the power they need regardless of the supply voltage. Less voltage only means they draw more amps = more losses in the system.

I would be extremely skeptical of any system offering to save energy by reducing voltage because it is not possible except in a few cases. Ask for a one year 200% money back guarantee. Or ask them to prove it on a single motor installation of your choice over a one-month period.

Be careful of one-time kWH measurements where they take a reading just before and just after installation. You will need at least 6 months of data to prove any benefit.

 

[djohnst]

These units are quite small- smaller than transformers of equivalent rating, and they don't give of that much heat- a 1500 kva unit has only 519 watts iron losses and 1000 watts copper losses at full load.
An electric water heater would draw less power for a longer period of time, but since the peak power consumed would be less, we would save money on the Electrical Demand charge from the Utility.
Decreasing the applied voltage on an electronic fluorescent ballast reduces the current as well(it also reduces the light output, but you can't have everything).
Same thing for other electronic components that I've tested-reducing the voltage results in a current reduction.This is only true for small voltage variations that remain within the rated voltage of the equipment.
If a motor was operating at say more than 5% above it's rated voltage (like a 460 volt motor on a 485 volt distibution) then reducing the voltage slightly should reduce the current slightly.

 

[RonShap]

If it is essentially a buck transformer (half twin of the buck/boost transformer), what happens when the utility voltage swings low 10% during the summer? Does the facility have to survive on 10% reduction of the utility and some other reduction of this gizmo?

 

[djohnst]

You're right, this is one of the worries that I have.

 

[IRstuff]

Frankly, anything with a name "Electrical Harmonizer" raises concerns about its technical performance and validity. It has a nice ring, but containsno substance. People can come up with any test that supports their conclusions. Without detailed knowledge of the test conditions and assumptions, their data is usually worthless.

I had a manager, once, who had a motto of "don't give me a test unless I can pass it." So there are plenty of slimy conniving people out there trying to take your hard-earned dollars.

TTFN

 

[jraef]

Listen to the above. This kind of scheme has been circulating around for ages, always looking for the next victim "customer". It does absolutely nothing beyound cutting down on fluorescent lighting costs by reducing the light output. I worked for GE lighting div. 20+ years ago, and we were fighting this battle even back then, under different names of course. We would go in and do a surface lumen study, design a lighting system to optimum conditions without overdoing it, and these guys would come in right behind us and sell their "energy saver", then workers would start complaining of eye strain etc. BS!

One other thing that bothers me. You said

... we would save money on the Electrical Demand charge from the Utility.

You may want to check that statement out with your utility. Demand charges are typically billed based on an integrated value of energy consumed over a sliding window of time, the most common being 15 minutes. Reducing the current by reducing the voltage on process heating only extends the heating time. So if your process took 10 minutes to heat up and now it will take 15 minutes, the difference is lost in the integration. If your thinking is that you can stretch it out beyond the integration time of your window, it may possibly have a minute effect on your peak demand, but it would likely be picked up in the next window anyway. Besides, you could accomplish exactly the same thing by turning your heaters off every 14 minutes for 1 minute.

"Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more." Nikola Tesla
Read the Eng-Tips Site Policies at faq731-376
Member, [blue]P[sup]3[/sup][/blue]

 

[ruggedscot]

Hey do they do a few free bottles of snake oil ?!

hocus pokus - tests can be made prove anything - if it says that you reduce consumption then you are losing power someplace - better off making sure that you (or the end user) undertakes more practible and realistic measures like keepinbg doors windows closed to stop heat loss - switching lights off if not required - that sort of thing is more productive than paying a lot of money on something that supposedly saves you money - whats the break even how much does it cost and what are the savings ?

Rugged

 

[AusLee]

Power Factor correction right at the load: saves energy and increases plant life.

 

[stevenal]

I know a device that can reduce voltage to zero. Energy use and demand both go to zero along with the associated charges. Payment in advance please.

 

[jraef]

I know that device too stevenal. I will sell my version for 10% cheaper than whatever he sells his for! Here is a picture of mine, the UES-2000.
Ultimate Energy Saver

I love the use of the word "harmonizer". What does that "Electrical Harmonizer" really mean? The electrons will get along better? I didn't know there was a conflict! Is it a political, social or religious conflict? I would have serious doubts that any device could harmonize a religious conflict. Hasn't worked yet to my knowledge. Maybe it's emotional, you know how those electrons can get all charged up about something, especially if they get rubbed the wrong way. Harmonious electrons, that's what the world needs more of. But the next thing you know, the protons will get jealous and want a divorce from the electrons, demanding a Protonic Ionizer as well. Then the neutrons will rebel and refuse to remain neutral, which then means supplying them with a Neutronic Renuetralizer.

I see an entire industry developing out of this.

"Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more." Nikola Tesla
Read the Eng-Tips Site Policies at faq731-376
Member, [blue]P[sup]3[/sup][/blue]

 

[WoodrowJWeen]

It sounds like something a barbershop quartet would use. Check with the SPEBSQSA (Society for the Preservation and Encouragement of Barber Shop Quartet Singing in America)

 

[itsmoked]

Yes but mine saves more energy!

 

[jraef]

You mean that your zero is less than my zero? Maybe you can call yours a Null Current Optimizer then. It must reduce null currents to a lower null level than the null current level that mine does, I'm sure.

I wish I'd thought of that.

 

[stevenal]

Mine saves more money. They can sometimes be obtained completely free of any charge for the material or installation.

http://www.brooksutility.com/catalog/product-detail.asp?ID=514

 

[jraef]

Ah yes, your avoids even the overhead losses of the WHM itself! Bravo.

 

[itsmoked]

And provides a large reduction in all local E-fields.

Very nice indeed.

 

[Skogsgurra]

You morons. Sending us back to stone-age, are you? It is a good thing that I am semi-retired. All this electric bill cutting makes me nervous and puts me out of job if allowed to continue.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

 

[itsmoked]

skogs we're just trying to help you get "fully retired" so that you can concentrate on things more enjoyable... like bingo.