The future of the combustion engine-OP ED 1

[BigTank]

I've always been in love with the combustion engine, as probably most of the men and women in this forum (maybe even on the planet). I'm a BSME with an interest in returning for an MS, but unsure of the focus.

A few years back I called an old professor asking if he had any upcoming open opportunities in his field of research (the study of combustion and mechanics and how they related to the combustion engine in particular). He told me that indeed his research assistant was finishing his degree the end of that particular semester, but his funding was cut such that he wasn't going to be able to continue the following year with another assistanceship. I don't know what happened after that.

Where do you all feel the industry is going in regards to the combustion engine as a consumer power source? Is there any REAL value in hybrid or electric technology vs. combustion engine design mindful of efficiency (both fuel and power delivery in combination). Technology like catalysts, fuel injection, computer-controlled throttle, valve/cam and ignition timing, etc. all seem to have made leaps and bounds in efficient power generation over the past 20 years. Lately the improvements have been particularly amazing...a mid-sized SUV that can get 30+ mpg highway?! Some of power of modern V-6 engines?! The reliability of turbo and supercharged engines?! Wow!

I would love to be in this arena, but is there a future?

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Fitter, happier, more productive

 

[TDIMeister]

My career is very bright and exciting. I don't lose sleep that it will go the way of the Dodo, at least within my working lifetime.

 

[Hydrofluoric]

Regardless of what politicians and environmentalists want. The internal combustion engine (by necessity) will be here for a very long time.

So far, it is unmatched in its convenience, cost, simplicity , weight and power density.

 

[JSteve2]

The ICE may exist perpetually. Fuels are just a form of energy storage, not energy, so although we may back off of crude oil as our energy source we may produce fuels long after that (algae-based diesel looks like a contender).

We've tweaked the ICE to have very good efficiency at the final source, and anything else will have to compete with our extensive knowledge and reliability that we've built up over 100+ years of using them. It may well be that electrical takes over in some areas, e.g. in crowded areas to reduce smog etc., but even that won't be for 25-50 years. I think the ICE has at least 75-100 years left, and probably will last much longer than that.

There is REAL value in hybrids and electrics, but they all have their sweet spots in terms of ideal operations and duty cycles, and their own drawbacks. Electrics are severely limited by the total on-board energy storage, hybrids are limited by the length of time they can output peak power, since they run into their non-combustion energy storage limit during sustained high power output situations.

There is far more than a career-length of interesting stuff left in any of the areas you mentioned, so you should just follow what you like to do.

 

[tbuelna]

BigTank,

The combustion engine will be the prime mover of choice for automotive applications for several decades to come. Hydrofluoric summed up the reasons nicely. Market forces will mostly determine what powers our cars, but government regulations will also continue to have a greater impact going forward.

By all means, continue with your education as long as your circumstances permit. Try to become familiar with as many aspects of engine design as possible, such as controls, simulation, mechanical design, fluid dynamics, heat transfer, tribology, kinematics, combustion kinetics, metallurgy, etc.

Also, try to spend some time interning with companies that manufacture engines. Your classroom and lab work will give you knowledge about the technical issues of engine design, but working around an engine production line will help you understand how to design an engine that is also cost effective and profitable to manufacture.

As an engineer with a strong technical background, as well as a good understanding of what it takes to manufacture a quality production engine, you will never have a problem finding excellent paying work.

Best of luck to you.
Terry

 

[SomptingGuy]

And chemistry.

- Steve

 

[drwebb]

Perhaps the question is not 'whether the ICE' but 'where the ICE'. Adding a foreign language to the curriculum and willingness to relocate perhaps deserve consideration . . .

 

[dicer]

ICE ? ICE may stay, but not in automotive apps, turbines and jets are ICE as well, and that is where they will stay. The powers to be don't want them in cars and trucks.
And besides there are better more effcient power sources.

 

[GregLocock]

Trucks and probably agricultural tractors are both automotive and they'll stay with IC.

Turbines are too inefficient.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[dicer]

Ineffcient, I fully agree.
Trucks and Ag machines owners won't be able to afford the taxes if they retain the same sort of prime movers. I forsee burning of any sort of fuel will be pretty much banned, for personal, commercial or other wise well unless its for education or antique demonstrations.

 

[TDIMeister]

What do you see as a more "efficient" alternative to the ICE then?

 

[evelrod]

After looking at the Ecoboost 2010 Ford SHO Taurus last week with the direct injected turbo six....Absolutely NOT the end of the line for internal combustion engines. Not even!

I love that fuel pressure. A leak won't take long to find...

Rod

 

[TDIMeister]

Contemporary Diesel engines operate with injection pressures 10X that of direct-injected gasoline systems (2000 vs 200 bar) and have for about a decade or more. Leakage has not been a problem.

 

[BigTank]

i'm w/ TDI...and i'm betting we know these things for the same reason, judging by his name...but VW has had a direct-injected gasoline engine on the market for a couple of model years now in the states, and longer in europe. same goes for BMW, i believe.

the fuel pressure was never a problem, as is indicated by the popularity of diesel engines. detonation supression technologies and the lack thereof are what kept the direct-injected gasoline engines from consumers for awhile, if i understand correctly, that is.

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Fitter, happier, more productive

 

[Marquis]

Gents, I believe evelrod was making a joke ;-)

http://www.auto-scape.com

 

[evelrod]

I just gotta be more subtle with my humor.....


Rod

 

[andyv8]

My 2 cents (as an infrequent poster)

All passcar OEM's are looking to migrate to EV's in the long term, but the cost of high energy density battery storage will remain high for the foreseeable future and range anxiety from the consumer is likely to limit take up of these (by definition) expensive vehicles.
In the interim, mild to dominant hybrids and range extended vehicles are likely to become a lot more prevalent. Of interest to BigTank may be that designing and operating conventional IC engines for these applications but with minimum cost/best BSFC is still not well understood.
The likely migration of conventional IC engines to limited speed/load generators (APU's) operating in unconventional engine cycles and under some very strange duty cycles, but still at minimum cost is going to keep engine engineers in employment for many years to come.....

Anyone fancy discussing novel architectures for dominant hybrids/APU's?

 

[GregLocock]

"All passcar OEM's are looking to migrate to EV's in the long term"

cite?



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[andyv8]

Toyota roadmap to sustainable mobility 2008.
Renault Powertrain Strategy (Goldman Sachs) 2009.
TNO report for the EU showing requirement to move to hybrids to meet EU CO2 legislation (Oct 2006).
UK King reports for the All Party Parliamentary Motor Group.

These are public domain. There are many others out there.

Long term EV migration (inc dominance of PHEV) may not actually happen, but that's where the investment is currently focused . The trade mags (SAE AEI, ATZ, MTZ etc) show how much money is being thrown at EV powertrain systems.

 

[GregLocock]

All doesn't mean some. eg

BMW - hydrogen IC
Honda - hydrogen fuel cell

I would guess that most companies don't know what will happen, and have fingers in many pies. I think there is a case for EVs, but in 20 years there is time for any sort of strange development to occur. In 20 years time the fleet will still be 50% gasoline according to a study I vaguely misremember.


Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?