The great resignation 19

[MIStructE_IRE]

The pandemic has given me a change of perspective and a change of life priorities. That, in conjunction with engineer’s anxiety and sleepless nights sweating over calculations has me questioning whether or not I want to do this for the rest of my life.

Has anyone else experienced this?

What is a sensible alternative career for a structural engineer?!

 

[phamENG]

Lo - that's awesome. I interned at a company that specialized in water/wastewater and environmental engineering and had just about the entire board for the local chapter of Engineers Without Borders on staff. Some of the stuff they did was really interesting - one that sticks out was building water filtration systems for villages in Cambodia - but never really touched on the structural stuff that I was getting into. Nice to know there's an outlet for that with a primarily architectural/structural bent.

On the off chance that I can make the time in the not too distance future, I'll have to reach out. Being able to volunteer on a short term, lower stress basis would be fun.

 

[bones206]

I keep referring back to my physician wife's career on this thread, because there are so many parallels with engineering. One thing that she really enjoys is teaching medical students. This is a formalized program, basically set up like an apprenticeship, and she teaches a half dozen students a year as they rotate through her office. She also has opportunities to lecture at the local medical school as a semi-formal side gig. I know this teaching aspect of her profession brings her a lot of joy and satisfaction and helps balance out the daily grind.

I can see this type of thing translating to engineering pretty well. I think the key to making it work in the medical field is that it is formalized, rigorous and a regulated mandatory requirement. So no matter how busy and overwhelmed a doctor gets, participation in this training and education program will always be woven into the fabric of their job. I think the current state of engineering generally leaves the trainees largely on the sidelines without meaningful engagement. I know a lot of experienced engineers yearn to pass on their knowledge and help fledgling engineers spread their wings, but that experience is more an exception than a rule these days.

 

[KootK]

KootK, we even have a team based in your fair city who would love to get input from time to time for their projects in Haiti or Africa.

So it seems. Canada's operations are headquartered here no less. Can I drop your name as a reference?

 

[KootK]

One of the things that I feel hinders us from doing the sabbatical thing is the structure of financial reward within your typical structural engineering consulting firm. To make any real money, you need an equity stake. To get the equity stake, you need to get promoted to associate/principal. To get that promotion, you need to put in decade or whatever, develop good business contacts, and build a team around you that can deliver the work profitably.

Everything about the setup that I just described heavily favors continuity in your work life. At most firms, a sabbatical would knock you off of that track in a heartbeat. Or, more likely, prevent you from ever getting on to it in the first place. All of the incentives steer one towards just continuing to grind away whether you're enjoying it or not. That, especially when you combine it with things like mortgages and kids that need educations.

 

[Enable]

So to sum up my take the last few posts (in jest):

1 - Looks like I shall try to twist KootK's arm to do some delegated stuff when I transfer provinces. I promise to get into funner things than taking out existing occupied high-rise building columns this time! FYI that is slated to go on shortly - I will let you know if I need to relocate to a non-extradition treaty country or not.

2 - I have to learn how to sail on the sea to navigate down to phamENG. Been a fresh water guy my entire life, but have experienced some near death sailing weather and have been sailing since I was in a car seat; my dad literally took me sailing while I was buckled into a baby car seat strapped to the deck. I'm told that my mom was not that enthused but in his defense the pictures indicate I was wearing a life jacket. So I'm 90% sure I am up to the challenge. I shall bring some Canadian maple syrup and Moosehead as a peace offering.

3 - phamENG must admit to his wife that she was right in that a 26 footer was not the right way to go. To be a real captain he needs at least a 28+ footer! (I have a CS30 and I love it dearly. Sometimes bigger really is better )

4 - We are all going to try and join / help Lo's volunteer organization at some point. Hopefully in an effort to help others while simultaneously making us feel like our skills are actually useful other than for sidestepping regulatory hurdles.

Note: I've had a particularly rough day barfing at details produced by large design offices that violate basic CISC requirements and the like. Apparently not only do they do shitty work in Canada but also in 50 other countries around the world! I needed to post something kinda fun. On to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[phamENG]

I'd take a bigger boat to be sure. I'd love me some blue water sailing. There's nothing quite like a 360 degree view of sea and sky. Granted, the years I had that I also had 100,000 tons of steel under my feet, so a fiberglass boat (or even a 60' steel hull) would probably be equal parts exhilarating and utterly terror inducing, but I'd love to do it. But a 26' boat with water ballast can be towed behind my budget friendly SUV and parked behind my barn. A 30' boat is a slip fee.

I haven't been sailing as long as you - had some fun with it high school on the Florida Gulf Coast, and did it for a few years here in Virginia after I left the Navy. Then came kids and I've been mostly out of the water - the project in the back yard is my attempt to claw my way back.

Interestingly, I can get Moosehead locally. Sort of. Closest store with it is about an hour away. Never had it - next time I'm up that way I'll have to pick some up.

Hey - take advantage of those terrible details. You can pick up enough change orders to buy the blue water boat.

 

[GregLocock]

I did the race from melbourne to hobart once. That's the west coast of Tas, not the sissy race. 40 footer. To my amusement the boats were lined up at the dock in finishing order. Or indeed, length.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[TLHS]

One of the things that I feel hinders us from doing the sabbatical thing is the structure of financial reward within your typical structural engineering consulting firm. To make any real money, you need an equity stake. To get the equity stake, you need to get promoted to associate/principal. To get that promotion, you need to put in decade or whatever, develop good business contacts, and build a team around you that can deliver the work profitably.

Everything about the setup that I just described heavily favors continuity in your work life. At most firms, a sabbatical would knock you off of that track in a heartbeat. Or, more likely, prevent you from ever getting on to it in the first place. All of the incentives steer one towards just continuing to grind away whether you're enjoying it or not. That, especially when you combine it with things like mortgages and kids that need educations.

Eh, but in the reverse, if the situation changes such that the above doesn't make sense anymore, then it suddenly makes a lot of sense to do that pause. I'm on a break right now for at least several months because I realized that even if I got the positions where I was, I didn't really think it'd be a good life situation, so might as well pull the ripcord a bit.

That being said, I'm also at a reasonably good time in my career to do it though. I'm in the latter half of my thirties, have a solid enough list of projects behind me and likely have the flexibility to come back in to the industry on at least a bit of my own terms, whether that be solo consulting, a reasonably significant role at a small firm or a senior technical guy at a big firm where I set some better work life balance than last time.

 

[KootK]

I'm on a break right now for at least several months because I realized that even if I got the positions where I was, I didn't really think it'd be a good life situation, so might as well pull the ripcord a bit.

Ahhh, so you are the great resignation. I'd actually been thinking to myself that you'd really been stepping up your contributions here as of late. I figured it was pat-leave or a new corner office.

That being said, I'm also at a reasonably good time in my career to do it though.

I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of your perceived sweet spot. When I was right where you are, it seemed as though employers and recruiters were practically mud wrestling over me. It's the perfect balance of pre-existing skill / reputation and future exploitation potential from an HR perspective.

I would love to have you as a colleague somehow. I may or may not be able to resist tracking you down and making a pitch.

 

[KootK]

Looks like I shall try to twist KootK's arm to do some delegated stuff when I transfer provinces. I promise to get into funner things than taking out existing occupied high-rise building columns this time!

You won't have to twist very hard. The existing column removal thing was more fun than most of the work that I do. Besides nowadays, I tend to be less concerned with what I'm doing than who I'm doing it with.

 

[KootK]

RE: SAILING.

It never ceases to amaze my how much commonality tends to exist between structural engineers. An interest in sailing among us seems to be almost as ubiquitous as in interest in bicycles.

The attached article is pretty Kindergarten level as far as sailing theory goes but it helped me immensely on my journey through windsurfing, catamaran, and toy sail boating. I found that the folks who were trying to teach me how to sail focused mostly on what to do when rather than on what the underlying principles are. And, as a person endowed with almost no physical intuition whatsoever, I do much better with the underlying principles.

Go vectors!!!

 

[Lomarandil]

Well said TLHS..

I think that even if the situation is not sprung on you, there is a lot to be said about keeping ambitions and goals in proportion with our means -- specifically including accommodating for time away, by choice or not. That's something I think our AUS and NZ friends get right.

There are two sides to that equation, but I've personally found that keeping a lid on my demands (costs and contentment) is a heck of a lot easier than trying to chase demand by increasing supply (income and accomplishments). Full circle back to the stoics.

I will let you know if I need to relocate to a non-extradition treaty country or not

As it works out.. I have you covered!
----
just call me Lo.

 

[Ron]

@KootK and Enable....thanks for the book plug!

 

[TLHS]

Ron's on a book? Looks interesting enough, so I guess I'll add it to the library! Anyone else been writing books recently?

edit: Man, I don't know what to do with kindle versions of reference books. When they exist, they're way cheaper but having a paper copy of reference books makes me significantly more likely to grab it at my desk and flip through it. I'm on board with kindle copies of books you're going to read sequentially, but they really don't hold up as well for skimming through and finding things. You can keyword search, but it isn't the same as 'I need to figure out if there is a broad section in this that answers questions I don't know I have' when you're trying to find high level things in a bunch of books. Basically, when you need to do a quick literature study on stuff to help see if you're dealing with a solved problem.

 

[StrEng007]

This has been one of the best topics to read on this site. It's a breath of fresh air that some of us share the same sentiments when it comes to the stress/pressure and anxiety related to our industry. I have also found it harder to dedicate the long hours to work, while trying maintain the personal side of the work/life balance.

It has always bothered me that prices and budgets are gouged in order to competitively win projects, while our (structural engineer) scope of work and liability continue to increase. The liability that follows us around plus the fatigue of adopting yet another code edition makes me feel as though I'm "working hard, not smart".

Perhaps it's the anonymous setting that allows such honesty, but I've spoke about this to colleagues and usually get the impression that nobody else is struggling with this. Engineers are a proud bunch, and you'd be surprised at how many conversations I've had with individuals who ARE NOT willing to admit that they don't know something (or already know the answer to something they don't). Thank you to all who can honestly say they struggle with maintaining the passion for this type of work. It's a vulnerability that I feel we don't allow ourselves to express.

How do the rest of you overcome the "what if" scenarios when the anxiety begins to get to you?