The jet engine 1

[PeterCharles]

After reading an article in today's paper I'm interested in the answers the members of this forum give to the simple question -
"Who invented the gas turbine jet engine?"

 

[KENAT]

BJC, what's your point?

I wasn't the one that brought up them 'stealing' jet technology from the UK.

The US & British Empire supplied Russia with a lot of equipment during the war, a fact often played down by the former USSR. The Allies invaded Italy largely because of Soviet pressure to open a second front and to some extent the bombing campaign was driven by Soviet pressure (especially some of the late war attacks on Dresden etc). So while I'm not sure how the balance adds up, it certainly wasn't all one sided.

As for learning to speak German, we won the battle of Britain before the Soviets were fighting the Germans.;-)

However this is almost completely off topic. The Soviets I believe may have had their own candidate for inventor of the gas turbine jet engine.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[drawoh]

KENAT,

Actually, I did not pick up on your reference to Hero. I have seen it spelled that way. It would have been so much easier if the ancient Greeks had learned to speak English, or at least used the Roman alphabet.

JHG

"If the King's English English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!"

"Ma" Ferguson

 

[Pressed]

I've seen video of Whittle testing an engine and he didn't seem to have much of a safety partition to protect himself from a failure. He might have thought failure wasn't an option.

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Kena "stealing"

You have discounted my post, twice now, but you have finally agreed with me on the stealing part, good deal. So there was zero misleading on stealing. I think all of us are capable of picking posts apart, but why?!!



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http://www.tailofthedragon.com

 

[KENAT]

OK, why do I keep gettin slammed for things other people bring up? If I had any sense I'd just keep out of it. As I lack sense though...

Greg & jmw brought it up with "stole?", I just added the fact they were provided with engines and so stole is perhaps misleading. I should have been more carefull in matching your wording of "technical information".

"After the war, the Russians stole jet engine technical information from the British which resulted into the Migs. "

My interpretation of your post was that you thought they managed to make the engins from stolen drawings etc from the UK. While they may have stolen technical information (and if so it probably helped) my point was that the provision of actual engines was probably a bigger factor. (A couple of web sites say that they were actually given a licence but I'm not sure this is true.)

I was trying to share knowledge not pick a post apart, sorry you took it that way.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[BJC]

KENAT
I didn't have a point.
After the war prehaps since the Russians had 10 times as many dead they thought giving them the jet was OK. Particullary if they they thought is was not the best design.
If the Russians had not put pressure on the Germans Operation Sea Lion might have materalized and/or the Normandy landing failed etc. etc.
The Russians would havegotten the jet engine somehow. They captured some ME-262s.

 

[KENAT]

http://www.aamb.com.au/MIG.HTM

http://www.4to40.com/encyclopedia/print.asp?id=37

http://www.aviation-history.com/mikoyan/mig15.html

All 3 say that the Soviets actually had a license to make the Nene, although as the Cold war had got going by the time it was time to pay the fees I don't think the UK/Rolls Royce was ever paid license fees.

(Take usual precautions as with anything found on the net)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[KENAT]

BJC, Ok, I'm sure many in the socialist UK government probably did feel that way, or at least still viewed the USSR as allies. Just like many of the general population probably felt the same.

Churchill was one of the first to point out the USSR as the big bad after the war, doesn't mean everyone else in the UK was in agreement.

All this is especially interesting given that during the 20s/early 30s the USSR was identified as the most likely oponent by the UK in many planning exercises etc. Then again there were also plans for a war with the US during this time so who knows.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[GregLocock]

I said 'received', not 'stole'.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[KENAT]

10 Dec 07 5:32

"Stole?"



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[GregLocock]

Oh, I see, yes, sorry.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[IRstuff]

War plans have little meaning until they do. The US, I've heard, has contigency plans for fighting just about everyone in the world.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[KENAT]

That was my point, I was second guessing myself.

Just you didn't have access to all the thought processes in the back of my mind...

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[ScottyUK]

If you lot can stop bickering long enough to take a look, you might find this link to the National Gas Turbine Test Establishment interesting:

http://www.ngte.co.uk/

The scale of the experimental rigs to physically test what today would be simulated by a computer is amazing. It looks like a fascinating place to have worked.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[KENAT]

My Uncle worked there till he retired a few years ago and was involved in the 'run-down'.

Sadly this and other sites around Farnborough related to the RAE etc and the historical legacy of aerospace in the UK probably aren't getting the recognition they deserve.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[jmw]

Poor Farnborough. All of it.
Being broken up and sold off piecemeal to private industry and large chunks drooled over by housing developers and supermarket chains while anything else is "relocated".

Poor Comet too.
While the investigation team necessarily set a standard for air accident investigation, others benefited from their discoveries than De Haviland.
1954 was a bad year for a British air passenger jet transport industry and the initiative passed to the US. One wonders what could have been done to help the British industry recover?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

jmw, The UK aerospace industry has been a sob story ever since WWII more or less. Comet, TSR II, P1054 and others too numerous to mention.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[KENAT]

Doh, TSR II

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[PeterCharles]

On my return a few points :
1) there are some tributes in the UK to Frank, but nothing major.
2) some references now say that Frank and the German von Ohain co-invented it!
3) the UK government not showing interest in the engine caused Frank to patent it, but the patent lapsed at one point as he couldn't afford the renewal fee!
4) the patent was widely circulated in Germany after copies were purchased by German diplomats.
5) as for the Russians they invented everything and copied nothing ;-)
6) the labour government after the war still believed Russia was the peoples paradise (and probably still do) so who knows what they gave away.

 

[btrueblood]

on item #2, phooey: Whittle's original patent just about predates Ohain's entry into high school.

 

[GregLocock]

1) He got a K

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.