The problem with references 7

[dozer]

The lawyers and HR people tell us to never give a bad employment reference. Is it because of some great moral compass these people possess? No, they're just afraid of getting sued.

OK, I get that nobody wants to get sued, but as engineers charged with protecting the public, should we really be passing poor performers from one company to the next because no one wants to risk a law suit? I'm not talking about people that show up late occasionally or don't hand in reports on time. I mean people that just don't have what it takes to be an engineer.

When we finally free ourselves of the offender and get a call from a potential employer asking if we would hire him or her again, we say, "Certainly." All the while thinking, "Yes as a janitor, but never as an engineer." So we've played our word game and haven't told a lie and feel good that we're so clever.

We wheel back over to the computer and continue pontificating on Eng-Tips how important it is as an engineer to have unimpeachable ethics.

 

[HgTX]

In response to the original post...I think I remember a case just a couple of years ago of a nurse who turned out to be murdering patients. At a couple of hospitals. And it turned out he'd been dismissed under a cloud of suspicion from several other hospitals along the way, but none of the hospitals were ever permitted by their legal departments to pass their suspicions on when called for references; all they could do was confirm employment.

It takes a lot to buck "Legal" on a suspicion. If you're wrong, you're open to a lawsuit yourself. And even that only comes up if you, the person with the concern, are the one who is contacted. If it's just HR that's contacted, they won't even have information to withhold.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[blueoak]

I have always called references, but I am typically looking more at if they can get along with others. I therefore am a lot more open to older references and coworkers than supervisors and current employers.

The date reference is pretty awful. My wife has worked for some large companies and provided excellent service with great reviews, but that "she worked here from a to b" can really harm you. Especially because policy only allows some HR person stationed in a different city to communicate.

 

[dozer]

So I guess one of my points in posting this was that references are fairly useless. Not only can people give good references to people who don't deserve it (or vice versa) but from these comments I see that what you don't say can be interpreted differently by different people. Some of you think just confirming the dates worked is appropriate and all that you should do. Others think that sends up a warning flag.

Oh well, if nothing else, take this as a cautionary tale. The example I gave about the guy saying he would hire so and so again wasn't entirely fictional. The thought process was but the bottom line was this was somebody you definately would not want working for you as an engineer. (You're just going to have to trust me on this.)

The lesson? If you're still convinced references are worth while, I wouldn't ask "Would you hire this person again?" Maybe instead ask, "What were his stengths?" Try to pin the reference down on why the person is worthwhile. His lawyer will probably be shaking his head vigourously saying, "Just give them start and end date." But you can say you tried.

 

[pauljohn]

<"references are fairly useless">
It really depends on the industry. In my profession you don't hand someone a million dollar yacht and say 'see you in Bermuda next month' without checking references and everything else you can get your hands on. I am sure there are other industries like this.

People call me all the time regarding crew they wish to hire that have given me as a reference. I always call references when I hire.

My wife (not in the engineering ind.) recently took a job from a company she had used as a reference for another job interview. The company found out she was in the market when the interviewer called them looking for a reference!