The Profession 19

[DannyGlover]

I just want to give my two cents about the state of the profession.

1. I believe for the most part it is an incredible amount of work for how much money it pays. Many organization expect too much free overtime in name of professionalism and too many meek engineers just give it. Stop it. A god damn plumber is smart enough to not work for free. If you are scrambling to get a project out, ok but if it is an every week thing knock it off.

2. Organizations treat engineers like cattle and just an expense. I don't feel anyone in management really gets the expense of bad engineering. Engineering is an expense and the cheapest is often seen as the best option.

3. Engineers do an incredibly bad job conveying their worth to an organization. The reason why analyst and people in other occupations do well is because they make their worth to the organization measurable. Engineers make no effort in quantifying their efforts. Why is this?

4. Every company has no interest in training an engineer for anything. Every company would rather gobble up someone who worked at some other organization. If they do hire someone new, two many organizations believe that and expect a green engineer can somehow bootstrap himself to an expert without the expense of mentoring. If you worried about your new engineers being a flight risk, apply for a H1-B visa. Never have to worry about them switching companies for more money.

5. I really get tired after being several years out of school and being close to applying for my PE license, having to explain why I am better than a fresh grad. People switch to adjacent positions all the time and never have to explain why they are better than a fresh grad. I also get tired of people who believe that being good at software package X, makes you a good engineer and extremely valuable to the company. When did the software package become engineers? Does our profession do such a bad job in promoting itself that people believe that engineering is nothing more than being familiar with a software package? Would you let a plumber work on your car because he knows how to turn a wrench?

6. I truly believe any engineer worth his salt could have made more money becoming a plumber or electrician and starting his own company. Most engineers are smart cookies and motivated. What the hell happened to this profession? I have half of mind to just drop from the profession and start my own company. A lot of politics, low wages, and low security. If I want low wages and low security, why not start my own company?


7. Shortage in the industry? Really, why aren't people more vocal over the fact that there is absolutely no shortage. The only shortage I see is of engineers with 15+ years of experience will to work for X, which was caused by many industries not being interested in training newer engineers due to the fact that is an expense.

8. If there is a shortage, why haven't the effective wages been going up? The effective wage of engineers has only been going down in the US. Am I in bizaro world? What kind of shortage is this?

9. Why are electrical utilities screaming that their is a shortage of power engineers and believe that getting more students interested in engineering is going to solve this supposed problem? Only 30-40 percent of graduating engineers go into engineering. What are we trying to do? Reduce that number to 10%?

10. If there really is a shortage, I'll tell you how to get broke college students serious about engineering. Pay nice starting salaries. Period.

Maybe , engineering is completely different for you if you have 10+ years of experience. Much of this though I just don't get or understand. I like engineering a lot but it has left me a little frustrated lately.

 

[lacajun]

controlsdude, whereas it is nice being complimented for a great job, it is even better to be rewarded financially.

I didn't think much about the financial aspect in my youth. There wasn't enough experience to contribute beyond normal assignments. As I gained experience, that changed.

I saw the politics working out for others financially through promotions, bonuses, etc. and not me. I realized they were doing this off of my work over many years spent away from home and long hours behind a terminal to improve quality, throughput, decrease downtime, etc.

I am human and wanted more, too. I wanted to enjoy more of the fruits of my labor rather than watch others enjoy it.

 

[DannyGlover]

Just an update. The day after this post, my significant other got me a full body message. Shooting spree averted. The company that I was hoping to get in with is letting me borrow a $4,000 piece of equipment from them for 3 months to run test patterns on something I purchased dirt cheap off of ebay. This is to continue a project I just finished for one of my classes. I am thinking about turning the results of this into a IEEE paper.

If something doesn't line up, I'll probably spend the summer working on this and volunteering for habitat for humanity. I can live with this.

 

[FeX32]

"I am thinking about turning the results of this into a IEEE paper."
Good for you. If unique enough consider a journal not conference. This is much more of an "eye catcher" in the research industry and academia.
The fact that you are continuing your work after work/classes are over suggest a greater motive than most have.
You might consider getting a job related to whatever your project is about.

btw, full body message! I need a few of those every once and a while


Fe

 

[controlsdude]

lacajun
People that are nice tell you if you did a nice job, compliment you, etc. It depends on the manager what verbal comments that you get either good/bad/or none.

It reminds of this job I was at recently where this older engineer kept telling me, if my manager would just say thank you once awhile, he could stand working there. But I kept telling him that if he did not like it here and its unbearable, its best find a different job. You cant change the people around you, you can only change what you do, only control what you do. This engineer finally got it and left this company. He finally realized that they were mean and unthankful lot.

My point is all things being equal, I would rather work with people that are nice and considerate, then jerks. People vote with their feet. Who says you have to work there?

 

[lacajun]

controlsdude, I voted with my feet more than once.

I've been complimented on my work so that wasn't as much an issue as not getting the promotions and bonuses for my contributions to the bottom line. If I had made one significant contribution, I wouldn't have worried about it. After consistently providing significant contributions, it became an issue.

I've worked with some tough nuts in my career in high pressure situations. Ever worked with a PTSD Vietnam veteran operator who routinely threatened to go postal on everyone, while rolling over a huge ethyl chloride reactor next to a non-explosion proof control room? I have. I've been called all kinds of names by men I am still on very good terms with years later. I have been "hit on" by married men that I am still on very good terms with today. I have worked just as hard at relationship building with my peers, maintenance hands, and operators as I did at the technical aspects. I have many successes in that area, which I am happy about.

I've studied the Bible for years. I am well aware of human nature and its attendant problems. I give allowance for those problems. After all, I have them, too, and have really appreciated people cutting me slack, when needed. The least I can do is provide it to others. I've also found that prayer about the problem people in my life, and there have been many personally and professionally, changes me most often. I don't expect others to change their attitudes towards me. I am not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

However, there are times you run into characters, as you know, that are extremely recalcitrant and have no desire to cooperate with anyone. How numerous they are, I can't say. I ran into enough of them that I have left more than one job. In some cases managers wouldn't address the situations. In others cases, managers were the problem. Undesirable knows no boundaries. On the other hand, desirable knows no boundaries.

I've had managers expect me to solve their personnel problems because they failed. If you want me to manage and repair relationships you cannot, pay me a managers salary and provide their bonuses. It's pretty simple. I am not a lackey.

I've unwittingly stepped into political messes caused by managers. They wanted me to fix their problems yet they continued to mishandle the problem people to the point that only pigheadedness remained over minutia. With this situation, a manager later told me they were very careful during the interview process to keep political problems hidden. They knew I would see them and decline an offer. They were correct on both counts.

After years of working with processes and people, I wanted to move up the food chain and learn some new skills.

Somehow spending years away from home working 60-90 hour weeks to provide millions in profits for a company didn't seem worthy of a few $40 bags from the company store, with the company logo. I liked the people I worked with. I detested the compensation.

 

[lacajun]

The owner of an engineering firm said in an interview that engineers are never recognized for doing a good job or anything else good by anyone. We went on to discuss how people don't understand the value engineers bring and companies have tried for decades to shed as many engineers as possible. It's a small but decades old firm.

Little wonder Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged has remained so popular.

 

[moltenmetal]

Sorry lacajun, but we disagree on that one! Anybody who is an "objectivist" (ack) should prepare to be offended and stop reading: Ayn Rand's novel "Atlas Shrugged" is a piece of agitprop rather than literature. The self-made man, whose brilliant inventions are suppressed soley by the evil business conspiracy blah blah blah...It remains popular because it suits some people's ideology. The way her technical people are written, I sincerely doubt she ever met any. Then again, they're not really people, they're ideological constructs in her ridiculous little ersatz "philosophy", so I guess it doesn't really matter.

People don't value what we do, but they do notice when we screw up! Perhaps we should screw up more?! Screwing up and the hope for its avoidance was what led to the licensure of our profession in the first place.

 

[lacajun]

moltenmetal, thanks for the word of the day, i.e., "ersatz."

When I read stuff like this Zombie Apocalypse, I find it increasingly difficult to not laugh at our government and to not reduce the people in it to a level of ridicule.

What I took away from that novel was that incompetent people politic their way into positions of power and do nothing but make things worse through their incompetence and cronyism. I've seen it countless times.

People do notice when we screw up, unfortunately. I prefer to "engineer out" all of the mistakes possible because I make enough of them unwittingly.

 

[KENAT]

You may not like the source, may not believe the stats or may think it's missing something etc. but here's an article that paints engineering a little more positively than much of the above.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4313908.../study-tells-students-what-their-major-worth/

The Bethlehem, Pa.-based group reports that engineering majors account for seven of the top 10 highest-paying majors for the class of 2011. The other three are computer science, information science and business systems networking/telecommunications.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[DannyGlover]

I don't buy this study. The bottom engineering quarter is making less than what other agencies quote as average starting salaries.


I am guessing they took these salaries from a study that companies benefit from using for their H1B visa numbers. Companies are required to pay prevailing wage. What they are paying their H1B visa employees and where they got their prevailing wage numbers is public record and can be found on the internet. I looked into a company once and saw that what they paid and what they claimed to be prevailing wage were significantly lower than what starting engineers were getting out of University of Texas-Austin, University of Houston, and Texas A&M. But what do I know? There is a huge engineering shortage.

 

[DannyGlover]

Companies exist to make money so I don't know if you can fault them for this.

 

[dvd]

Mel,

I like the cut of your jib. I had to give you another star for your H1-B visa comments. We seem to share a certain amount of cynicism; I wish that I could figure out how to capitalize on my cynical attitude. I will share the formula if that ever occurs.

 

[mauricestoker]

dvd,

There is certainly a way to capitalize on cynicism; become a radio talk show host.

 

[nuche1973]

I totally understand. I was laid off two months ago. Turned out the rules of the profession my father in law told me were correct. Funny thing: a client heard about my "misfortune" and picked me up. I was out of work for only a few weeks. Changed careers, moved up the ladder (from engineer to project manager) and got a raise to boot!

 

[satchmo]

.

 

[FeX32]

lol....


Fe

 

[csd72]

satchmo,

That is the most accurate engineering chart I have ever seen.

 

[mauricestoker]

Thank you, Satchmo, I've never seen my life philosophy, lowered expectations, to be so clearly depicted in graphic form.

 

[satchmo]

Got a copy hanging in my cube. When anyone wants to know why I'm being mean or surly, I just point to it.

 

[SWmechE]

lacajun,

With regards to the Zombie Apocalypse emergency planning I have to disagree with you (at least how I read your post). That was probably the most effective emergency planning campaigns I've see/heard of out of any government group... just look at how much coverage it's received. The fact that they've used satire to draw people's attention to a topic that many would have ignored was genius and I hope whomever thought of it received their fair credit.

As for the OP, many of those thoughts have crossed my mind too, at least I enjoy what I do (most of the time) and the people I work with. It helps a lot working in a small group of like minded people who expect fair treatment as the norm.

As for flash's post in my mind that's a bit of a cop out that could be said for many jobs; using a garbage man as an example "How many other jobs pay you just to drive around the neighbourhoods enjoying the scenery? Meter-reader maybe? cabbie? How cool is it that garbage men get paid just to drive around and just play with heavy equipment." It's great that you enjoy your job but I expect fair compensation along with that enjoyment, anything less is not being fair to myself. (As an aside I did meter reading to put me through the first couple years of uni... it was a great job that I enjoyed and my intention was not to demean those positions mentioned).