Tie-List - Key Process Information 2

[sheiko]

Hello,

Working in an EPC company as a process engineer, i would like to know what are the key information a process engineer must provide to Piping Design in a Tie-In list and why?

I also would like to know the basic steps for planning, designing and constructing such Tie-In's in a Revamp project?
For example, i have found the following steps for Tie-In planning. Could you identify missing steps or additionnal one that you believe should be included?

1. Identify each Tie-In(s) schematic location on P&ID - Process Engineer
2. Review with Piping - Process & Piping Design
3. Create a Tie-In List with key information about each Tie-In -
Piping Design & Process Engineer
4. Review with Client - Process Engineer
5. Go to the Field to locate physical point of Tie-In - Piping
Design/Process
6. Meet with plant personnel and review Tie-In requirements -
Piping Design, Process, Plant Operations, Safety
7. Discuss different types and configurations of Tie-Ins - Piping
Design, Process and Plant personnel
8. Establish physical Tie-In location point and type - Piping
Design & Plant Personnel
9. Define if the line can be shut –down, when, how long, draining,
depressuring, steam-out and other safety issues - All personnel
10. Visually inspect the existing pipe. Are more extensive tests
needed to determine condition and suitability for the Tie-In -
Piping Design and Plant personnel
11. Mark or tag the selected Tie-In point - Piping Design & Plant Personnel
12. Photograph the Tie-In point - Piping Design
13. Draw sketch and take all required measurements - Piping Design
14. Determine locations of all existing block valves, vents and
drains - Piping Design
15. Determine the location of all existing anchors and guides -
Piping Design
16. Based on selected Tie-In location and type determine if
additional vents or drains will now be required - Piping Design,
Plant Operations
17. Include new vents or drains (if any) on sketch - Piping Design
18. Insure that this process is followed for all Tie-Ins - All participants
19. Get plant personnel to sign off on all data collected in the
field - Piping Design & Process Engineering
20. In the office modify the P&ID as required - Process Engineer
21. Convert all field sketches into appropriate production drawings
(Isometrics) - Piping Design
22. Prepare a Plot Plan style "Tie-In Location Key Plan"
23. Update the Tie-In List as required - Piping Design
24. Review all Tie-Ins with Pipe Stress for effect on existing
system piping and new system piping - Piping Design
25. Finalize (check, correct and approve) all Tie-In isometric
drawings - Piping Design

Please feel free to share any documentation you could. I have googled "piping tie in" but i did not find that much relevant information.

Thanks.


"We don't believe things because they are true, things are true because we believe them."

 

[BigInch]

Tie-in Line Number (company designated)

Tie-in Location Northing, Easting and Elevation
Tie-in Number
Pipe Design Specification Number (company designated)
Usually also defines maximum pressure and temperature
Product name and phase

with minimums and maximums for
Operating Press, temp, flow.

Any other product related information the pipe designer may need, such as pH, vapor pressure, specific gravity, etc.

**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[pennpiper]

Item #3 on the listing you show above is:
"Create a Tie-In List with key information about each Tie-In - Piping Design & Process Engineer"

A "Tie-In" List will normally have a Title Block area and a "Tie-In List Data" area.

The Title Block area should have the following:
- Title (Example- "Piping Tie-In List")
- Document Number
- Sheet No.
- Project Name
- Project Number
- Unit Number
- Issue Date
- Issue Description
- Prepared By (name)
- Checked By (name)
- Approved By (Name)

A Tie-In List Data area should (or may) have the following:
For the new line: [indicates responsibility]
- Tie-In No. [piping]
- P&ID No. [piping]
- Piping Plan No. (new) [piping]
- Tie-In Iso. No. (if different than Line Number)[piping]
- Line No. [piping]
- Conn. Type [piping]
- Commodity [piping or process]
- Oper. Press. (this should be the same as the existing line so you do not need it twice)[piping or process]
- Oper. Temp. (this should be the same as the existing line so you do not need it twice) [piping or process]
- Test Media [piping]
- Test Press. [piping]
- NDE Req'd. [piping]

For existing line being tied into:
- Exist. Piping Plan [piping]
- Exist. Line No. [piping]
- Exist P&ID [piping]
- North Coord. [piping]
- East (or West) Coord. [piping]
- Center line Elev. [piping]

Construction:
- Pre-weld Inspection [welding engineer]
- Welding Comp/tested [construction]

Schedule Data:
- Req'd Complete Date [Client]
- Schedule Shut-down [Client]
- Completion Client Sign-Off [Client]

Other:
- Remarks [all groups]

 

[BigInch]

All that and did we somehow miss

existing pipe diameter, material and wall thickness.

**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[MrMechanik]

pennpiper:
Your list actually confused me. Would you please share a sample one (or reference to net link?)
to BigInch:
Aren't Max. and Min. flow, temp. and pressure related to "UTILITY SUMMARY" document?

 

[BigInch]

Not mine.

**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[pennpiper]

MrMechanik
If you go to

http://www.pipingdesigners.com

Click on the "TIPS" button and find the following article:

"Process Design Team: Thinking outside the box"

Read article including the very last line then send me an E-mail. I will send you a copy of a TIE-IN LIST Sample.

p.s.: enjoy the reading also.

 

[sheiko]

Pennpiper, could you please attach this list for the benefit of everyone?
Thanks a lot!

"We don't believe things because they are true, things are true because we believe them."

 

[BigInch]

**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[sheiko]

Pennpiper,

I was wondering if it is really useful to repeat in the tie-in list some data already given the line list? I mean data like: operating and design temperature, pressure...

"We don't believe things because they are true, things are true because we believe them."

 

[BigInch]

Don't you think a pump spec or a flange or fitting or valve requisition for that line might even have that same data repeated in them. Will you attach line lists to all the requisitions and PFDs. A tie-in list is a place to have all the tie-in data you need right there, where and when you need it. Oh, maybe we should put your line lists on everyone's iPod.

**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[sheiko]

What you say makes sense but, as far as i know the tie-in list is part of a package wich includes PIDs, Line list, Tie-In description,...no?

"We don't believe things because they are true, things are true because we believe them."

 

[BigInch]

No. Its a determination of where the tie-in should go and the pertinent information related to the tie-ins points only. I wouldn't have any use for the line list and PIDs for an entire refinery if I were going to connect one line to the inlet line of 1 gasoline tank. I doubt I'd even want to see the PID of the tank farm. I might need only the very minimum info to send on to a hot-tap contractor, so he could make a bid for the work. If I had to dig the info out of all the refinery drawings, determine the tie-in point myself, get the line lists, PIDs, PFDs, plans, elevations, just to get that myself, I don't think I'd call you again... unless I needed a taxi.

**********************
"The problem isn't working out the equation,
its finding the answer to the real question." BigInch

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[sheiko]

Thanks

"We don't believe things because they are true, things are true because we believe them."