Too much free advice 8

[Dinosaur]

Guys,

I have been noticing several threads recently where folks with no formal engineering training have posted questions. For a time, earlier this year, I noticed most of these were answered, "You need to hire a structural engineer." I think this is the correct thing to do in most cases. I worry that we may provide very acurate advice that is inappropriately applied resulting in an accident. I don't want to provide specific descriptions of the threads because I don't want to cause embarrassment, but I think we need to consider our audience before responding to some questions.

 

[epr]

Eng-Tips is a very useful tool. Since I first became aware of this site a couple of years ago, I have searched for answers to some of my questions, I have posted a few questions, and I have responded to a few questions. I only wish that I could respond to more questions, because I believe my 30-some years of experience in the field could be quite useful, but my time is limited due to my workload.

Whenever a question is posted from an obvious non-engineer I almost feel violated, because Eng-Tips is intended for professionals only. Since I have not spent much time on this site I unfortunately, have not realized that an inappropriate post could be red-flagged (as indicated by JAE, above). I will make use of this red-flagging, and every other engineer should also. I feel that the value of Eng-Tips is diminished by non-engineers.

Notwithstanding the above, I also do not believe that Eng-Tips should be consulted by young engineers that have not first consulted with their mentor (engineer in responsible charge). Allow me to explain, lest I also be called a “dinosaur”. (Please don't take offense Dinosaur, I agree with you.)

After college I started in a large engineering firm. My mentor was a project engineer with probably 25 years of experience, and he had been with the firm for about ten years. Whenever I had an engineering-type question of substance (as opposed to a question that required only a quick answer), my mentor would provide a small amount of advice and direct me to a publication (or few) that could provide the answer. The “answer” involved reading of at least a few pages, generally more . . . which generally referenced further reading, . . . which I also researched. (Involved a lot of home syudy.)

Pursuing an answer to a question in this manner provided me with the background, as well as the means to answer the question, or to solve my problem. I am deeply grateful to my mentor for his direction, and I firmly believe that his, is the best way to thoroughly learn any engineering solution. You won’t need a photographic memory, but you’ll always remember how to solve the particular problem.

In stark contrast to the in-depth method above, is a short answer posted on Eng-tips to a potentially complicated question. A terse response, in an inexperienced young engineer’s hand could cause more problems than imagined.

In short, first consult your mentor, research the background material and then, if you have a specific question about your research, consult Eng-Tips.

 

[gtaw]

It sounds like you want an exclusive club, not a forum that is open to the public.

Just my opinion.

Best regards - Al

 

[JStephen]

Use the "Red Flag" with caution. I discovered the hard way that it doesn't remove say, a response that is inappropriate, but removes the entire thread. And I have yet to see any sign that such a post gets reviewed- it just seems to disappear forever regardless.

 

[corus]

The argument seems to be that if you ask a question then you are not competent in that subject, you are not competent to ask a question, and not competent to receive a reply. Utter tosh. It's only advice you're getting. Some of it is good, some of it isn't.
Incidentally, I once asked a chartered engineer (a PE in the US) if he could do a problem for me. He said he didn't know how to but he could check the answer I got as "he was chartered". Staggering beyond belief. Some so-called engineers need to get off their high horse.

corus

 

[Ussuri]

No one is 'competent' at everything, and unless you work in a very specialist area (or a bubble) you will always come across aspects you have not dealt with before. At that point do you go "I'm not competent" and give up or do some research, ask colleagues who have more experience in that area and increase your level of competency.

This is the same whether you are a new graduate or a seasoned pro with 40 years experience. Lets be clear even a seasoned pro has to learn all the time as the technology is always changing.

Increasing your knowledge, expanding your comfort zone is all part of improving as an engineer. It doesnt matter if you are old or young.

And if asking a few questions here helps an individual to do that then the site is working properly.

 

[cbrn]

Hi,
my 2 cents: I may agree with Dinosaur in the principle (if we read his first sentence for what it seems to mean): let's be careful not to provide anyone with a Ferrari when it is manifest that he can hardly handle a Cinquecento (pardon for taking examples from my country...). This posed, let's think for a moment to the implications of a furious red-flag use: for example, would you really shut anybody up only because the question is badly posed (i.e. using wrong / inappropriate terms), as it seems to be suggested in Reply #8? Please consider that this site is also frequented by non-anglosaxon engineers (yes, yes, prefessional engineers... once again, does someone want it to be transformed in an exclusive club?), who often struggle against language in order not to be misunderstood.
Also, I think Ussuri hits the best point: as long as an engineer has the will to increase his knowledge (= to LEARN and to ASK), then he can be called "engineer"; should he believe he knows everything and refuse to admit that himself could, one day, ask a question which would be considered dumb by someone other, then I'd call him an arrogant fossile, not an engineer any more. I do believe that the great majority of the threads are opened by people who ask for advice, and don't want their problem to be simply "solved by others".
I believe that no catastrophe has occurred in the history of humanity because someone asked a dumb question and received a competent answer. Btw, someone who is really competent should have the capability to give an appropriate answer to an inappropriate question, providing for a minimum of help but warning that question was ill-posed.
P.S.: it's not entirely true that red-flagging one post makes the entire thread disappear: it happens (a bit frequently, I admit...), but probably only when the staff decides that the whole thread was ill-posed from the beginning.

Regards

 

[Loui1]

This whole point is useless. None of the formulae, methods, directions, people post on here will hold up in court unless they are backed by adequete outside sources, such as BOOKS, ARTICLES, and DESIGN AIDS. ENG-TIPS is a good guide to get you going in the right direction and to find the right resources, but is not to be cited as a resource itself. Do you guys actually reference ENG TIPS as the sources of your equations in your calculations????? I sure hope not.

 

[woodengineer]

I agree with Loui1. When a colleague calls me with a question I point them in the right direction, I do not solve the problem in its entirety.

woodengineer

 

[HgTX]

1. Not everyone has the good fortune to have a mentor.

2. Just to clarify: The red flag does not automatically delete a whole thread. I've used this tool myself to get particular posts deleted (and had some of mine deleted as well). But if the initial question was one that should not have been posted, then the whole thread will probably go away even if there are good responses in it. If you have more questions about the red flag review process, I suggest that you contact the site management through the "contact us" link at the top of the page.

Hg


Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[drawoh]

Y'know, if someone asks "Hi, I am designing a 2500psi steam tank that goes next to a day care centre and a yard full of cute puppies. What material should I use?", you do not have to red flag it. You can reply to them that they clearly are not qualified and that they should take this to a qualified engineer.

If there is no red flag, they get to log on and read the answer.

I have seen a couple of messages online here from people who know they are not qualified, but they are arguing with their bosses. There is an increasing number of semi-qualified people operating FEA software (including me soon). An Eng-tips response may keep someone from making a mistake, and it may be the resource that gets the point across to the boss.

JHG