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Tool Steel L6 heat treat 4
- Thread starter bunyer
- Start date
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1
- #2
You can get pretty close, around Rc 32 by Austenizing at 1525F for 15 minutes then quench in agitated oil. Temper twice at 1200F. Hold the temperature very close to the 1200F mark.
Can you be a little more specific as to what you are trying to accomplish and the physical dimensions of the part?
Can you be a little more specific as to what you are trying to accomplish and the physical dimensions of the part?
- Thread starter
- #3
unclesyd ,
Thank you so much for getting back to me. Yes, I do owe you details and very desperate for information as we are approaching the deadline.
We are providing the rough machined forge part to the customer. According to A681-94, the max hardness that we can get by annealing only is about RC20-22. As I understand, the customer will be doing further machining. We are hestitating to temper as the customer want to machine after they receive from us. I don't understand where RC28-32 come from and according to what design guideline. The parts are 22"x11"x32" forging blocks. Oh, we were told they were some sort of hammers. Thanks again.
Thank you so much for getting back to me. Yes, I do owe you details and very desperate for information as we are approaching the deadline.
We are providing the rough machined forge part to the customer. According to A681-94, the max hardness that we can get by annealing only is about RC20-22. As I understand, the customer will be doing further machining. We are hestitating to temper as the customer want to machine after they receive from us. I don't understand where RC28-32 come from and according to what design guideline. The parts are 22"x11"x32" forging blocks. Oh, we were told they were some sort of hammers. Thanks again.
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1
- #4
EdStainless
Materials
Make sure that you talk this over with your customer. Do they want them softer for ease of machining, and then they will re-heat treat them. Or do they want you to rough them and heat treat to the finished hardness for them to then finish machine.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
- Thread starter
- #5
Thank you EdStainless.
We are going thru middle man and that is what makes tough to communicate directly with customer. A purchasing agent is what we are dealing with now and have no knowledge of heat treat and the material. We don't see a justification for any heat treat between rough and finish machining. Not only it costs us more money , finish machining is simiply to fine tune the rough geometry. Is RC 28-32 too hard to machine? Or Is it stil reasonable hard to machine? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
We are going thru middle man and that is what makes tough to communicate directly with customer. A purchasing agent is what we are dealing with now and have no knowledge of heat treat and the material. We don't see a justification for any heat treat between rough and finish machining. Not only it costs us more money , finish machining is simiply to fine tune the rough geometry. Is RC 28-32 too hard to machine? Or Is it stil reasonable hard to machine? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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1
- #6
The reason you would heat treat before final machining is to get your dimensions. There is going to be some dimensional change due to the lattice change from the heat treat.
You can machine HRc 28-34, it costs more and isn't easy, but carbide would work.
Nick
I love materials science!
You can machine HRc 28-34, it costs more and isn't easy, but carbide would work.
Nick
I love materials science!
- Thread starter
- #7
NickE. Thank you. Your guys are all wonderful and helpful.
The only info that we got are the material (L6), hardness requriment (HRc 28-32) and dimensions. Who normally details the heat treat routing, the customers and supplierS? We don't know if any info is missing from the original request. We can provide further heat treat after rough machining. However, we are not confident what hardness that we will get since we haven't delt with this material before. Thanks in advance.
The only info that we got are the material (L6), hardness requriment (HRc 28-32) and dimensions. Who normally details the heat treat routing, the customers and supplierS? We don't know if any info is missing from the original request. We can provide further heat treat after rough machining. However, we are not confident what hardness that we will get since we haven't delt with this material before. Thanks in advance.
At this point I would just provide what was stated on teh PO. A part meeting all the specified print dimensions, and notes. Then I would heat treat it to get the hardness the buyer wants. A quick phone call to their engineering or production department is maybe a good idea, however if they are asking for a rough machined (big tolerances, rough surface finish-or uncontrolled, etc...) part that meets a blueprint then that is what you should give them.
Aside- I feel that the shop/vendoer should not try to re-design the things I send to the shop/vendor to make. If I say I want D2 at HRc62, drawn three times, and absolutely no grind after heat treat - That is exactly what I want.
Nick
I love materials science!
Aside- I feel that the shop/vendoer should not try to re-design the things I send to the shop/vendor to make. If I say I want D2 at HRc62, drawn three times, and absolutely no grind after heat treat - That is exactly what I want.
Nick
I love materials science!
EdStainless
Materials
Now I wonder, are they requiring that the material be Q&T, or is this hardness the annealed condition??
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
- Thread starter
- #10
Edstainless. You got it. That is exactly what I wonder too.
See the link below or the attached article.
Heat treatment of tool steels
By Ed Tarney,
Crucible Service Centers
Syracuse, NY
Most punches, dies, stamps, and other metalforming tools require high hardness, usually above about 55 Rc, to perform successfully. However, they are supplied to tool builders in the annealed condition, around 200/250 Brinell (about 20 Rc), to facilitate machining. They must be heat treated to develop their characteristic properties, making the tool capable of withstanding the pressure, abrasion, and impacts inherent in metalforming.
Each step of the heat treating cycle performs a specific function. Like the links in a chain, the final product is only as good as its weakest component. Heat treating typically accounts for less than 10% of the cost of a tool, but it may be the single most important factor in determining the performance of the tool. There is no such thing as an acceptable shortcut in heat treating tool steels.
The high hardness structure of tool steels, called martensite, cannot be produced directly from the soft annealed structure. Tool steels must undergo two intermediate structure changes during the heat treating process. First, the annealed structure, called ferrite, must be heated to become a high temperature structure called austenite. Then, the austenite must be cooled relatively quickly to become martensite.
Four steps
To accomplish these structural changes in tool steels, four primary heat treating steps are used: preheating, austenitizing, quenching, and tempering.
Preheating, or slow heating, of tool steels provides three practical benefits, although it does not directly affect the final properties of the steel. First, most tool steels are sensitive to thermal shock. A sudden increase in temperature up to 1500/2000F may cause tool steels to crack. Preheating to one or more intermediate temperatures allows more gradual heating.
Second, tool steels undergo a change in density when they transform from ferrite to austenite. If this volume change occurs nonuniformly, it can cause unnecessary distortion of tool, especially where differences in section cause some parts of a tool to transform before other parts have reached the required temperature. Tool steels should be preheated to just below the temperature at which austenite forms (called the critical temperature), and then held at that temperature long enough to allow the full cross-section to reach a uniform temperature. Then on further heating, the tool will transform more uniformly, causing less distortion to occur.
Third, steels conduct heat faster at higher temperatures. Thus, a preheated tool may require slightly less furnace time at the hardening temperature to reach uniformity. Minimizing time at temperature is a good practice for maximizing the toughness (impact resistance) of the tool. In some cases, particularly involving hardening temperatures over 2000F, multiple preheating steps may be used prior to reaching the final austenitizing temperature.
Once tool steels have been satisfactorily preheated, they are raised to their austenitizing temperature. The desired hardened structure, called martensite, cannot form directly from the annealed structure, called ferrite. The ferrite must first be transformed to an intermediate structure called austenite. Tool steel becomes austenite when it is heated above its critical temperature. The critical temperature for most tool steels is about 1500F.
Tailored to be tough
After the structure changes to austenite, further heating is required to properly distribute the alloy content of the steel. Most of the useful alloy content of tool steels exists as microscopic carbide particles in the soft matrix of the annealed steel. These carbide particles must be at least partially dissolved into the matrix of the steel during the hold at the austenitizing or hardening temperature.
In some grades, the austenitizing temperature may be varied to tailor the properties of the steel, in order to provide a little extra wear-resistance or toughness for specific applications. Higher temperatures allow more alloy content to dissolve into the matrix, allowing slightly higher hardness and better wear resistance. Lower temperatures dissolve less alloy content into the matrix, and favor increased impact resistance, although the attainable hardness is slightly lower. The use of lower than maximum hardening temperatures, called underhardening, is often the most effective way to achieve the maximum toughness in the high alloy grades, where a range of hardening temperatures are possible.
The hold times used depend primarily on the austenitizing temperature. Diffusion of alloy content occurs faster at higher temperatures, and hold times are decreased accordingly. Larger sections require longer hold times to allow them to be heated through to the aim temperature. Extended hold times depend on the type of furnace equipment, load size, and heat treat experience.
Once the alloy content has been dissolved as desired into the steel matrix during austenitizing, the steel must be cooled fast enough to keep the alloy content in place and transform the austenite to the high hardness martensite. How fast a steel must be cooled to fully harden depends on the chemical composition. Low alloy tool steels (O1, S5, L6, etc) must be quenched in oil in order to cool fast enough. This drastic quench can cool some portions of the tool much faster than other portions, increasing risk of distortion or even cracking in severe cases. Higher alloy tool steels (A2, D2, M4, 10V, etc.) may be cooled in air or inert gas. Air-hardening steels cool more uniformly, so distortion and risk of cracking are lower.
Time to temper
For tool steels quenched from over 2000F, the quench rate from about 1800F down to about 1300F must be rapid enough to avoid undesirable reactions which can impair toughness and hardness response. The actual transformation of austenite to martensite does not begin until the steel cools below about 700F. The specific temperature at which martenite starts to form is called the "martenite start" or "MS" temperature. In tool most steels, the martensite forms between about 600F and about 200F. The amount of martensite depends principly on how close to the lower temperature, (martesnite finish or "MF" temperature), the steel gets. 100% martensite is not formed until the steel cools below the martesnite finishing temperature.
As soon as tool steels have been quenched to about 125/150F, they should be immediately tempered. Tempering is performed to stress relieve the brittle martensite formed during the quench. Most steels have a fairly wide range of acceptable tempering temperatures. For best relief of quenching stresses, use the highest tempering temperature which will give the desired hardness. Most tool steels must be tempered at least twice, with triple tempering recommended for high alloy grades or high hardening temperatures.
Tool steels should be held at temperature a minimum of two hours for each temper. A rule of thumb is to allow one hour per inch of thickest section for tempering, but in no case less than two hours.
When surface treatments are used, (nitriding, TiN coating, etc.), the heat treating process should be discussed with the surface treater. For best results, it is important that heat treating temperatures and processes are compatible with subsequent surface treatment temperatures.
The heat treat process results in an unavoidable size increase in tool steels due to the changes in microstructure. Most tool steels will grow between about 0.0005´´ and 0.002´´ per inch of original length during heat treatment. This will vary somewhat based on a number of theoretical and practical factors.
In certain cases, a combination of variables including high alloy content, long austenitizing time or high temperature, discontinuing the quench process too soon, or other factors in the process may cause the MS temperature to become depressed to below room temperature. In this case some of the high temperature structure, austenite, will be retained at room temperature (martensite is not completely formed). This retained austenite condition is usually accompanied by an unexpected shrinkage in size, and sometimes by less ability to hold a magnet. This condition can often be corrected simply by exposing tools to a low temperature (cryogenic or refrigeration treatments), to encourage continuation of the transformation to martensite by cooling the steel to below its MS.
Tool steels transform to martensite during quenching from about 600F down to about 200F. In some cases, as described above, the transformation to martensite may not be complete at the end of the quench (125F). In such cases, some austenite may still be retained after the normal heat treatment. This retained austenite can sometimes lead to unexpected growth in service, causing loss of accuracy. A2 and D2 are two grades commonly prone to retained austenite after heat treating.
By cooling the steel to sub-zero temperatures, this retained austenite may be transformed to martensite. The newly formed martensite is similar to the as-quenched martensite, and must be tempered. Cryogenic or refrigeration treatment should include a temper after freezing. The cold treatment is often performed between normally scheduled tempers. By minimizing retained austenite, certain kinds of dimensional stability problems can be avoided.
Exposure to oxygen at the austenitizing temperatures causes scaling and decarburization of the surface of tools. Decarburization causes a permanent loss in attainable hardness at the tool surface. For this reason, some type of surface protection during austenitizing is required. Vacuum, controlled-atmosphere, or neutral salt bath furnaces all offer surface protection. If neutral atmosphere furnaces are not available, parts are sometimes wrapped in stainless foil to minimize oxygen exposure.
Salt furnaces usually offer the quickest and most uniform heating, but leave a residue which must be cleaned from the tool surface. Salt bath heat treating has traditionally used for high speed steel cutting tools, and often cannot accomodate large tools or high volume hardening. Vacuum furnaces offer the best surface protection, but usually require longer process cycles. Quench rate may be limited due to the ability to remove heat from a hot part fast enough to obtain maximum hardness. Vacuum heat treating may result in slightly lower hardness than salt bath. Wrapping parts in foil may also slow down the quench rate because of the slight insulating effect of the foil layer. In addition, the type of foil must be chosen to withstand the austenitizing temperature used.
See the link below or the attached article.
Heat treatment of tool steels
By Ed Tarney,
Crucible Service Centers
Syracuse, NY
Most punches, dies, stamps, and other metalforming tools require high hardness, usually above about 55 Rc, to perform successfully. However, they are supplied to tool builders in the annealed condition, around 200/250 Brinell (about 20 Rc), to facilitate machining. They must be heat treated to develop their characteristic properties, making the tool capable of withstanding the pressure, abrasion, and impacts inherent in metalforming.
Each step of the heat treating cycle performs a specific function. Like the links in a chain, the final product is only as good as its weakest component. Heat treating typically accounts for less than 10% of the cost of a tool, but it may be the single most important factor in determining the performance of the tool. There is no such thing as an acceptable shortcut in heat treating tool steels.
The high hardness structure of tool steels, called martensite, cannot be produced directly from the soft annealed structure. Tool steels must undergo two intermediate structure changes during the heat treating process. First, the annealed structure, called ferrite, must be heated to become a high temperature structure called austenite. Then, the austenite must be cooled relatively quickly to become martensite.
Four steps
To accomplish these structural changes in tool steels, four primary heat treating steps are used: preheating, austenitizing, quenching, and tempering.
Preheating, or slow heating, of tool steels provides three practical benefits, although it does not directly affect the final properties of the steel. First, most tool steels are sensitive to thermal shock. A sudden increase in temperature up to 1500/2000F may cause tool steels to crack. Preheating to one or more intermediate temperatures allows more gradual heating.
Second, tool steels undergo a change in density when they transform from ferrite to austenite. If this volume change occurs nonuniformly, it can cause unnecessary distortion of tool, especially where differences in section cause some parts of a tool to transform before other parts have reached the required temperature. Tool steels should be preheated to just below the temperature at which austenite forms (called the critical temperature), and then held at that temperature long enough to allow the full cross-section to reach a uniform temperature. Then on further heating, the tool will transform more uniformly, causing less distortion to occur.
Third, steels conduct heat faster at higher temperatures. Thus, a preheated tool may require slightly less furnace time at the hardening temperature to reach uniformity. Minimizing time at temperature is a good practice for maximizing the toughness (impact resistance) of the tool. In some cases, particularly involving hardening temperatures over 2000F, multiple preheating steps may be used prior to reaching the final austenitizing temperature.
Once tool steels have been satisfactorily preheated, they are raised to their austenitizing temperature. The desired hardened structure, called martensite, cannot form directly from the annealed structure, called ferrite. The ferrite must first be transformed to an intermediate structure called austenite. Tool steel becomes austenite when it is heated above its critical temperature. The critical temperature for most tool steels is about 1500F.
Tailored to be tough
After the structure changes to austenite, further heating is required to properly distribute the alloy content of the steel. Most of the useful alloy content of tool steels exists as microscopic carbide particles in the soft matrix of the annealed steel. These carbide particles must be at least partially dissolved into the matrix of the steel during the hold at the austenitizing or hardening temperature.
In some grades, the austenitizing temperature may be varied to tailor the properties of the steel, in order to provide a little extra wear-resistance or toughness for specific applications. Higher temperatures allow more alloy content to dissolve into the matrix, allowing slightly higher hardness and better wear resistance. Lower temperatures dissolve less alloy content into the matrix, and favor increased impact resistance, although the attainable hardness is slightly lower. The use of lower than maximum hardening temperatures, called underhardening, is often the most effective way to achieve the maximum toughness in the high alloy grades, where a range of hardening temperatures are possible.
The hold times used depend primarily on the austenitizing temperature. Diffusion of alloy content occurs faster at higher temperatures, and hold times are decreased accordingly. Larger sections require longer hold times to allow them to be heated through to the aim temperature. Extended hold times depend on the type of furnace equipment, load size, and heat treat experience.
Once the alloy content has been dissolved as desired into the steel matrix during austenitizing, the steel must be cooled fast enough to keep the alloy content in place and transform the austenite to the high hardness martensite. How fast a steel must be cooled to fully harden depends on the chemical composition. Low alloy tool steels (O1, S5, L6, etc) must be quenched in oil in order to cool fast enough. This drastic quench can cool some portions of the tool much faster than other portions, increasing risk of distortion or even cracking in severe cases. Higher alloy tool steels (A2, D2, M4, 10V, etc.) may be cooled in air or inert gas. Air-hardening steels cool more uniformly, so distortion and risk of cracking are lower.
Time to temper
For tool steels quenched from over 2000F, the quench rate from about 1800F down to about 1300F must be rapid enough to avoid undesirable reactions which can impair toughness and hardness response. The actual transformation of austenite to martensite does not begin until the steel cools below about 700F. The specific temperature at which martenite starts to form is called the "martenite start" or "MS" temperature. In tool most steels, the martensite forms between about 600F and about 200F. The amount of martensite depends principly on how close to the lower temperature, (martesnite finish or "MF" temperature), the steel gets. 100% martensite is not formed until the steel cools below the martesnite finishing temperature.
As soon as tool steels have been quenched to about 125/150F, they should be immediately tempered. Tempering is performed to stress relieve the brittle martensite formed during the quench. Most steels have a fairly wide range of acceptable tempering temperatures. For best relief of quenching stresses, use the highest tempering temperature which will give the desired hardness. Most tool steels must be tempered at least twice, with triple tempering recommended for high alloy grades or high hardening temperatures.
Tool steels should be held at temperature a minimum of two hours for each temper. A rule of thumb is to allow one hour per inch of thickest section for tempering, but in no case less than two hours.
When surface treatments are used, (nitriding, TiN coating, etc.), the heat treating process should be discussed with the surface treater. For best results, it is important that heat treating temperatures and processes are compatible with subsequent surface treatment temperatures.
The heat treat process results in an unavoidable size increase in tool steels due to the changes in microstructure. Most tool steels will grow between about 0.0005´´ and 0.002´´ per inch of original length during heat treatment. This will vary somewhat based on a number of theoretical and practical factors.
In certain cases, a combination of variables including high alloy content, long austenitizing time or high temperature, discontinuing the quench process too soon, or other factors in the process may cause the MS temperature to become depressed to below room temperature. In this case some of the high temperature structure, austenite, will be retained at room temperature (martensite is not completely formed). This retained austenite condition is usually accompanied by an unexpected shrinkage in size, and sometimes by less ability to hold a magnet. This condition can often be corrected simply by exposing tools to a low temperature (cryogenic or refrigeration treatments), to encourage continuation of the transformation to martensite by cooling the steel to below its MS.
Tool steels transform to martensite during quenching from about 600F down to about 200F. In some cases, as described above, the transformation to martensite may not be complete at the end of the quench (125F). In such cases, some austenite may still be retained after the normal heat treatment. This retained austenite can sometimes lead to unexpected growth in service, causing loss of accuracy. A2 and D2 are two grades commonly prone to retained austenite after heat treating.
By cooling the steel to sub-zero temperatures, this retained austenite may be transformed to martensite. The newly formed martensite is similar to the as-quenched martensite, and must be tempered. Cryogenic or refrigeration treatment should include a temper after freezing. The cold treatment is often performed between normally scheduled tempers. By minimizing retained austenite, certain kinds of dimensional stability problems can be avoided.
Exposure to oxygen at the austenitizing temperatures causes scaling and decarburization of the surface of tools. Decarburization causes a permanent loss in attainable hardness at the tool surface. For this reason, some type of surface protection during austenitizing is required. Vacuum, controlled-atmosphere, or neutral salt bath furnaces all offer surface protection. If neutral atmosphere furnaces are not available, parts are sometimes wrapped in stainless foil to minimize oxygen exposure.
Salt furnaces usually offer the quickest and most uniform heating, but leave a residue which must be cleaned from the tool surface. Salt bath heat treating has traditionally used for high speed steel cutting tools, and often cannot accomodate large tools or high volume hardening. Vacuum furnaces offer the best surface protection, but usually require longer process cycles. Quench rate may be limited due to the ability to remove heat from a hot part fast enough to obtain maximum hardness. Vacuum heat treating may result in slightly lower hardness than salt bath. Wrapping parts in foil may also slow down the quench rate because of the slight insulating effect of the foil layer. In addition, the type of foil must be chosen to withstand the austenitizing temperature used.
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Maybe helpful:
Note the hardness & dimensional changes according to the tempering.
Note the hardness & dimensional changes according to the tempering.
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