Tools I would like to be able to buy !

[Thecardoc]

As an automotive technician, and NOT an engineer, nor someone with even the slightest ability to draw I often have ideas for a tool to make my job easier but no way to create them. Frankly I don't really care much about the process required for patenting etc. anyway so tell you what. Here's what I want, someone make it!

Air Chiesls (hammers) have been around for a while. But there is one specific use that they would be great for, but the repeating nature of the tool defeats any real chance of doing so because you cannot control it once it starts hammering. The use would be to install freeze plugs in the side of the engine block, which often means the tool would have to operate at an angle. It also must be able to hammer in single shots per trigger pull for precise control. One added advantage would be if the hammer strength could be adjusted as well from a slight tap, to the equivelent of a full arm swing with a 20oz hammer. When confined by clearances, many times a technician cannot get any room to swing a hammer, but a properlly built tool would not need the space that a regular hammer would. As far as the "angle" portion of the tool goes, I have some ideas but they would need drawn and tested for practicality as well as durability.

OK There it is, You build it, you can claim it. But someone build it for me!!!!

There are more ideas from where that one comes (VBG)....

 

[ivymike]

when I worked at an auto parts store, we carried the rubber plugs in addition to steel and brass ones. Steel ones were the most commonly sold, according to my rusty memory.

 

[evelrod]

I have tiny a bit experience with core plugs. The socket/hammer works for me. Tried the rubber plugs on the cylinder head of a 360 Dodge (on the front) as an emergency...Not very good as they came out in short order, even with the rad cap loose! I have successfully used the Dorman three piece brass plugs...never had a failure and they can be installed with a wrench...little pricey, though. Where Welch plugs are used, it's steel only.

My race engine plugs are usually steel, cup or Welch and, "set screwed" or tapped and plugged. The only street failure I have had in recent times was on a '95 Chrysler LHS V-6---all six OEM plugs failed under warranty. No explanation from the dealer.

Rod

 

[Thecardoc]

When room permits, the socket and hammer method does work. There are other tools sold for the purpose of installing the plugs that attempt to allow the mechanic to be able to drive the plug in at an angle or from some distance to the actual plug and they are a help in some cases, and at best simply aggrevating in others.

 

[Newmanite]

Mate I know your frustration....Core plugs really suck.
I have gone away from the gruelling frustration of fitting these bastard things.I now freeze them with liquid nitrogen,carbon dioxide or dry ice.I find it sooooo much easier compared to not doing it this way.

 

[tomwalz]

From Practical Machinist

Do you mean core plugs in an engine block? (Sometimes misnamed the freeze-out plugs.)
For any oddball automotive tool, try Snap-On.
JRR

Use either a proper fitting socket or a seal driver kit. The socket can shrink the plug if not used properly, causing faulty sealing. We use Permatex Aviation Seal on the plugs before installation.
Perry Harrington

Just went through it with a Rover V8 not too long ago. Just clean up the recesses, coat the plug with a good grade of sealer (I used Permatex 2a - non-hardening) and tap it in square using a driver that is a close fit to the inside of the plug (I turned one from scrap).

As said above, don;t hammer the center down or the plug will "shrink" - you want the sides to remain parallel, hence my comment about a close-fitting driver.
Alan


Thomas J. Walz
Carbide Processors, Inc.

http://www.carbideprocessors.com

 

[Thecardoc]

I appreciate what you wrote there Tom. As far as accomplishing the task, I've done it enough times to know what to do and what not to do. This is why I outlined what I would like to be able to buy and if someone would take the request serious enough to built it, it would assist all technicians in doing a repair that can be very difficult from time to time. Imagine driving a soft plug in when there is only 3 inches of space between the engine block and some other surface. Rubber plugs tend to leak as has been described by others, even the bolt in brass ones can occasionally leave one dissapointed, especially if the subsequent failure leaves a customer stranded, or worse results in engine damage. One solution that has been used on occasion is to install a bolt in block heater, and then leave it up to the customer to decide if they actually want to be able to plug the car in if they want to. You have to compare the expense of the block heater, to the total labor that could be required to remove the engine to install the soft plug if there isn't sufficient room to do so otherwise.

If no one is interested in designing and building a tool that can do as I ask then this thread is pretty much done.

 

[KENAT]

OK, on the design side then, how is the recoil to be handled?

Pushing a device like this up into a gap where you can't directly support it will most likely limit its effectiveness wont it?

Perhaps you could design it to brace against the body work but you'd need to be careful.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Thecardoc]

The recoil is clearly one of the big hurdles. Keeping the actual stroke of the tool as short as possible will help. Utilizing both tool mass, and from there the tech will have to brace the tool either by hand, or with mechanical means. Frankly we actually are not talking about a large force, but many times the force require to install a freeze plug is greater than what can be achieved by a technician swinging a hammer in one to four inches.

I can envision the fact that the tools needing to change mechanical direction could be used in some fashion to dampen the shock load. Something like the throw on a crankshaft. I can envision the hammer power traveling slightly past the actual impact point and then the motion being levered so that the piston would hit the freeze plug and then timed instantly afterwards, the crank throw would then attempt to move away from the block, which would cause it's own momemtum change and dampen the thrust.

 

[evelrod]

The OP obviously is in a position where he must install a lot of core plugs in his business. A good Port-a-power with a small cylinder might work. Make a threaded device to wedge between the plug and some near surface. A long bent bar for leverage in some circumstances.

Like I said, I've done a few in the last fifty years and, even the 'easy' ones can present problems. I prefer NOT to use a sealer unless there is corrosion present in the hole. Also, there is a world of difference in the installation of a 'cup' plug and a 'Welch" plug.

Finally, I have had two engines freeze and break, a six cylinder 48 Plymouth and a four cylinder English Ford. Neither of these engines pushed out their "freeze plugs"!

Rod

 

[patprimmer]

I still say a tyre lever or two and a strategically placed block of wood or two and maybe a piece of rubber or carpet under the wood can do the job without body damage if care is taken. Push against the rim, not the flat so the plug does not shrink.

Regards

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[Thecardoc]

Imagine doing this a few hundred times a year, not one or two times in a lifetime. Then imagine doing it on all different makes of cars. There are too many easily breakable parts to make prying the plugs in feasable and rarely are you going to have a good fulcrum point exactly where you would need it to be. BTW you won't really know if another structure is strong enough to pry off of, until it proves that it wasn't. Trying to press it in with pressure also requires some other surface virtually as strong as the block is press off of. That's why the plugs are normally driven in. The part that only people inside the field understand is quite often labor guides are used to estimate repair times. Most of the time services like this one are not actually performed and researched, and are widely left up to assumptions. Rarely does a shop ever charge more than these guesses, and that usually ends up leaving the shop and the tech underpaid when the task simply does not get completed easily. If a tool was made that would do what I have outlined, it would sell because taking a hit one time (the price of the tool) is a lot better than taking repeated hits throughout ones career. That's why automotive techs with 20+ years of experience usually have more than 50K in their tool boxes....

Some of us have much more than that!

 

[NormPeterson]

I keep coming back to the idea of a hammer mass working against a separate inertia mass of some sort (rather than primarily using the entire tool for that function) and using shop air and some user means of controlling the pressure to the tool. But I have no idea how well you could guarantee square 'hits' on the plug each time. Toggle action? Really short air cylinder? Means of limiting the stroke? Just tossing out thoughts.


Norm

 

[KENAT]

Norm, you mean something like a recoilless rifle? Send equal momentum both ways?



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[NormPeterson]

Something along that line (I guess, never having seen a recoilless rifle up close).

Might want the hammer to open a port on the air cylinder so that mostly it's only hammer momentum that gets applied against the plug.


Norm

 

[KENAT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoilless_rifle

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...