Trade off of Graphics Card V Processor 1

[KENAT]

I've looked at faq559-974 & couple of others plus done a quick search for related threads but haven't found information distilled down to my level of understanding for my specific question.

We're looking at getting some new work stations to support our planned move to Solid Works 2010.

Our IT guy is proposing:[blue]

Dell Precision T7500:
Dell Precision T7500 Workstation

Graphics:
2GB NVIDIA® Quadro® 4000, DUAL MON, 2DP &
1DVI

Memory:
4GB, DDR3 Memory,1333MHz, ECC (4 DIMMS)

Boot Hard Drive:
320GB SATA 3.0Gb/s with NCQ and 16MB
DataBurst Cache™

Processor:
Dual Quad Core Intel® Xeon® Processor E5620,
2.40GHz,12M L3, 5.86GT/s, turbo[/blue]

I'm wondering though if we'd be better trading less powerful graphics card for faster processor.

Our budget is around 3k per machine which the IT guys machine hits.

Other stuff that may be relevant:

Working over network with no PDM/PLM planned for the foreseeable future.

Large Assy Models, in the thousands of parts.

Drawings with lots of views (actually work instructions but same file type etc.)

Some users may also be using their machines with Ansys.

Appreciate the help.

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[JMirisola]

If you're going to be running Win7 64-bit, I'd get more RAM and slide down on the graphics card a bit. The more RAM, the merrier.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Design Manager/Senior Designer
M9 Defense
My Blog

 

[KENAT]

Probably sticking with 32 bit, should have said sorry, otherwise yes I'd probably add RAM based on my experience with our current CAD program.

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[EEnd]

With the information that you have provided, sticking with a 32-bit OS would be a BIG mistake.

The amount of system RAM will determine how large the assemblies and drawings can be before SW crashes.

Additionally, the 4GB of system memory and the 2GB on the video card exceeds the 4GB of address space for a 32-bit system. My experience has been that all of the memory on the video card gets addresses and the amount of available system memory is reduced accordingly. This would leave only 2GB of system memory to be divided by the OS and your applications.

I do think you are on the right track in terms of shifting money from the video card to the CPU. That should increase your performance. But, if at all possible go with a 64-bit OS.

Eric

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

I agree with the others.

1) Fastest CPU
2) Maximum RAM with x64 OS
3) Video card

You could have different systems for the different functions;
Xeons for the ANSYS machines, regular i7's for SW only.

 

[KENAT]

Thanks,

I'm still trying to get my head around what 'fastest CPU' really means. My research suggests that 'clock speed' is only a fair comparison for processors from the same product line/family. For SW as I understand it multi cores are only used by a limited amount of functionality so are of limited benefit.

As to OS and the effect of that on RAM, we're still debating it, it's all messed up by the need to still support our old CAD system for the foreseeable future (like 5+ years) but not wanting to spend time on maintaining it/learning the new interface.

Just back in July I was told switching to Window 7 was problematic so started my planning based on sticking with XP 32bit (because of trouble we've had with setting up 64 bit XP machines). Now I learn Windows 7 might actually be preferred.

CBL, I started having similar thoughts to you regarding the dual use machines V dedicated SW machines since playing around on the Dell site I was able to spec the below without exceeding $3k.

[blue]Dell Precision T3500:
Dell Precision T3500, CMT, Standard Power Supply, C2 Motherboard

Graphics:
2GB NVIDIA® Quadro® 4000, DUAL MON, 2DP & 1DVI

Memory:
4GB, 1333MHz, DDR3 SDRAM, NECC (2 DIMM)

Boot Hard Drive:
1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM Hard Drive with 32MB DataBurst Cache™

Processor:
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3565 3.20GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s[/blue]

The fastest processor I could find on there was a 3.6 GHz i5 but that's where my concerns about comparing the speeds of processors from different families comes in.

I've got a question in with our VAR, but I know they sometimes don't like making hard recommendations for liability reasons.

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[KENAT]

Oh, the other thing is we have a couple of 'super PC's' that are a shared resource for the really challenging stuff. While they're a few years old now they have 64 bit XP, 3.3 GHz quad core & something like 16 GB of RAM and pretty decent Graphics Cards.

So we don't have to completely max out the new machines, but some of our existing individual PC's are pretty sad & replacements are long overdue.

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[JMirisola]

Kenat,
I run Win7 64-bit without any major issues at all. Most people I know who are running Win7 have the same experiences. While 32-bit may serve you well for the short term, you're going to want 64-bit for the long term. I would strongly suggest moving to Win7 64-bit. Drop a bit on the GC and bump up your RAM.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Design Manager/Senior Designer
M9 Defense
My Blog

 

[KENAT]

I checked with our IT guy and he strongly wants to stick with 32 bit for various reasons, including other software & printer drivers etc. and the time to set them up (we don't have enough IT staff).

Like I said, for situations where RAM is king we have the 2 64 bit boxes.

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[SnowCrash]

Yeah, if you have devices added to your boxes, W7-64 drivers can be a difficulty. ( for certain large values of 'difficulty'

--
Hardie "Crashj" Johnson
SW 2010 SP 4.0
HP Pavillion Elite HPE
W7 Pro, Nvidia Quaddro FX580

 

[WH74]

Are you sure that your IT guy understands what you need? I think I worked for the same company that you work for. I was VC66's manager for a while. 64bit windows 7 is the way to go. I would go with a i7 if you could 6 gig's of ram, or an i5 wire 6 or 8 gigs, depending on you what your IT guy can get a deal on. The video card can be dropped down a level or two and i don't think you will notice a difference. If you have choices go with the highest clock speed processor first then # of cores then video card.

 

[KENAT]

Thanks everyone for the help.

WH74, I'm in the bit of the company that was recently sold, we have one IT guy for about 150 staff or something like that.

64bit is definitely out for now. Also with our preferred vendor, if you pick an i5 or i7 then your graphics card and other options get limited.

I've had my goal posts moved multiple times, confused by the need to run Ansys on them and various other factors. Looks like we'll end up with something like:

Dell Precision T3500:
Dell Precision T3500, CMT, Standard Power Supply, C2 Motherboard

Graphics:
2GB NVIDIA® Quadro® 4000, DUAL MON, 2DP & 1DVI

Memory:
4GB, 1333MHz, DDR3 SDRAM, NECC (2 DIMM)

Boot Hard Drive:
1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM Hard Drive with 32MB DataBurst Cache™

Processor:
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3565 3.20GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s

Although, the IT guy is talking about not wanted 1TB drives on desktops because they aren't backed up and he reckons if you give folks space they'll use it.

Oh, and just to top it off, it may all have been wasted effort as now we have to have the PC's delivered before we shutdown for Christmas, not just ordered, or else they'll probably put if off till who knows when.

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[CX23882]

Is there really no way that you could use Windows 7 64-bit?

If you go with that system and 32-bit, you will get just under 2GB of usable memory (2GB of address space for the graphics card, plus address space for other devices). I wouldn't want to run a Windows 7 on an office PC with anything less than 2GB RAM, and SolidWorks is going to be pushing it.

 

[KENAT]

IT are adamant.

Looks like we may not be getting them now anyway as we may not be able to get delivery before year end which is some budget cut off.

Part of the reason I maxed out stuff is so that when we hit the wall in a few months time and are forced to 64bit, at least we'll have something worth upgrading.

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[DiegoLGraves]

We purchased new workstations this year, running Win 7 64 bit, and run our older applications in windows XP mode, as a virtual machine. It's like running two separate computers out of one box. It generally works great, allowed us to get the latest and greatest hardware now for our core cad apps, and still run our older business applications while we wait for them to go to 64 bit. I've been very happy with this setup.

Talk to your IT guy about using XP mode on a virtual machine for your older applications.

Regards, Diego